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Backup Exec

What is going on with Backup Exec 2012 & Windows Server 2012?

Created: 05 Jul 2013 • Updated: 28 May 2014 • 94 comments
PackMatt73's picture
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 ***I would like to thank all of you for the contributions made to this post over the last month. We hear your frustrations and concerns. At this time, we are closing this thread to further comment. If you require support or have other concerns/questions, please do not hesitate send me or other Symantec support members a Private Message.  Thank you! ***

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

  • Windows Server 2012 has been available for some time now
  • Backup Exec 2012 & 2010 do not support it yet. 

That second part is about to change.  This blog is the place to go for updates on the Backup Exec 2012 & 2010 service pack betas.  Stay tuned as we are on track to go generally available in July, which is just in time for the Windows 2012 R2 preview to be released into the wild.  If I were you, I’d want to know when Backup Exec 2012 will support WS12R2.

The new leadership of Backup Exec put a mandate on quality.  Nothing is leaving this house that is not top of the line quality.  No more shipping just to meet a public release date.  That being said, the WS12 released entailed a LOT of work.  Beyond just an OS, there was an entirely new file system, a new hypervisor, new VSS and, for the first time, native deduplication.  All of these new items were compounded across the myriad of new Microsoft applications and 2 versions of Backup Exec.  With this focus on quality, we have devoted an extraordinary amount of time to testing.  We do not want a repeat of past sins.

A few things to be aware of about the coming service packs:  they are all about platform support.  The Backup Exec beta blog referenced above details everything that will be supported.  There are a few limitations to the service packs:

  • Backup Exec 2010 SP3 & 2012 SP2 will not install on Windows 2012 or Windows 2012 R2 as a media server.  Users must run BE on a Windows 2008 Server or other supported media server platform
  • GRT limitations
  1. Cannot GRT a Windows 2012 ReFS volume
  • Support for this requires OS components that are not present in Windows 2008 and early versions
  1. Cannot GRT Hyper-V VHDX volumes larger than 2TB
  • We currently convert VHDX into VHD volumes in order to perform GRT
  • VHD does not support volumes larger than 2TB. 
  1. GRT Exchange 2013
  • Service packs do not support granular recovery of data from Exchange 2013.  GRT is supported on earlier versions of Exchange.
  1. GRT SharePoint 2013
  • Service packs do not support granular recovery of data from SharePoint 2013. 

Our goal is for the next major release of Backup Exec to support WS12R2.  Over the next several weeks we will finalize scoping the changes required to support WS12R2.  In August , we should be able to give a 6 month window for when you can expect the next BE.  As development progresses, I will be able to narrow that to a 3 month window, then again to a 1 month window.  Again, follow us on Symantec Connect, Spiceworks, Twitter and Google+, for progress updates.

WS12R2 is a much larger project than supporting the initial release of WS12.  Microsoft spent a day in our Heathrow, FL development location working with our product management and engineering teams on what is coming next, and we learned that there will be a lot of changes, including Hyper-V . Since you’ve told us you depend on  Windows and Hyper-V, we do not take these changes lightly.

I’m sharing all of this because we want to be as transparent as possible.  In the past  we’ve overpromised and under delivered but we won’t do that again.  We will deliver quality, just as we are doing with these most recent service packs, and we will stick to our priorities of platform support, quality and seamless migration for future releases.

We are working hard to return Backup Exec to its position as a trusted backup solution that meets or exceeds the demands of your data center.  We are breaking a lot of eggs to make this omelet.  We will probably break a whole lot more.  What we won’t do is ship something that isn’t ready and let you down again.  Our chefs will stay in the kitchen until the solution is right.  In the end though, we’re going to make one hell of an omelet.  Stick around to find out.

Comments 94 CommentsJump to latest comment

CraigV's picture

Good to hear Matt! Thanks for feeding back to the community!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

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JStellato's picture

You guys are still missing the problem,

We need support for new product when it hits the shelves.  Supporting all the features of the Windows Server OS should be top priority, not creating new interfaces.  That's a secondary task. 

The server refresh cycle is shortening, we are 1 year into 2012 R1 and R2 is in customer preview, not sure if you notice but Microsoft switched to a 1 year upgrade cycle and 2 year release cycle.

At this rate you are always behind, we are being forced by the industry into Hyper-V because of the cost/implementation savings for the customers, and the market is driving our upgrades to 2012 Server because of the value Microsoft is adding with features like replication, live migrations, etc.

So what do we do with backup?  We are migrating away from BE, because it's so late to market.  We use the microsoft built in backup system which works well as an image recovery and vm recovery system.  Then we use a carbonite based backup to keep data only.

Refactor your development, quality is important, but timing is everything.

Focus on the 98%, not the 2%. 

Everyone thought it was rediculous when the iPhone first came out, they didn't have copy and paste, such a simple option but it wasn't there.  It's because they hadn't figured out a way to implement it well.  They focused on the core product as a priority, not the features as a priority. 

100% of our new server systems being installed are using Server 2012 as a host, and usually 2008 R2 as a VM, not the other way around, so not being able to install on a 2012 isn't an option.  We already bailed 6 months ago.

Hoping this all connects with Symantec, so they get it.  I know all the talking and the Beta release make it seem like your doing well, the fact is, a year later the ball is still down on the ground begging to be picked up.

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Tallwood6's picture

I couldn’t agree more with the post above, sadly I suspect the only time Symantec will actually sit up and take notice is when they have lost a large percentage of its customers. If others can get a product out the door with support and minimal quality control issues within a couple months of GA then Symantec’s current approach seems a little sad.

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IMW's picture

I agree with both of the above -  Symantec have clearly missed the boat with 2012 yet are now promising limited support, as long as we keep a 2008 server spare to load their product on. How can I propose this to an end customer?

It also appears that the emphasis is now on the next 2012 release......what do Symantec think has been the current server offering for about a year?

We have been selling 2012 for months, yet I stumbled on the below - hidden away in the 2012 VRay white papers section:-

http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/enterprise/white_papers/b-win-server-2012-migration-virtualization-survey_WP.en-us.pdf

It basically says that we need not worry about Symantec delivering a solution for Server 2012 as nobody needs it yet.

Quote - "ORGANIZATIONS ARE MOVING....
...TO WINDOWS SERVER 2012 - BUT OVER TIME" - genius

Come on guys - this would be presumptuous even by Microsoft standards.

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PackMatt73's picture

I hear and understand your frustration.  We are working as hard as we can, and as fast as we can, to get the SPs out there so you can backup your WS12 servers.  As stated though, we aren't going to put out a substandard product just to meet a shipping date.  We have things to fix and those fixes take time.

Another blog to follow with updates on what is happening w/r/t BE can be found here

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Tallwood6's picture

No your not hearing anything, what you are saying is we dont care if it takes 12 months to put out a patch or service pack to support an OS everyone wants or NEEDS to use. You will put it out when you are good a ready and when you are sure it is ready.

What we or I am saying is a better balance needs to be struck, your competitors can put out an update and support a product within a few months seemingly without any substanial issues for end users why cant symantec? Why does support need to full into a service pack can support for new operating systems and features not be drip fed in smaller patches?

Prehaps instead of presuming to know what its customers want symantec could put out a survey and ask its customers?

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PackMatt73's picture

We have made dramatic changes over the entire body of the Backup Exec organization in order to address the problems that have arisen in the past couple of years.  This includes a new CEO, VP of BE Product Mgt, VP of Tech Support, VP of Engineering and others throughout the org.  All of these changes were happening at the same time as the release of WS12.  Unfortunately, some things just take as much time as they take.  I stipulate that our competitors have come to market faster than we have.  I would love for us to have a way to make this go faster, but there just isn't right now.  The beta is nearly complete and we will ship the SP this month.  In the future, we are going to be much more aligned with the shipping dates of important solutions like WS12 and other.  This particular go-round was the perfect storm.  We have put in a lot of work to right this ship and there is still a lot of work to be done, but we are doing it.

The processes used by engineering & product management have also been overhauled.  

I would be happy to connect you with the new User Experience team inside of Backup Exec Product Mgt.  They are looking to speak with customers to better understand the role backup & recovery play in users' organizations and what can be done to BE to make it fill that role better.

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Tallwood6's picture

I'm happy to speak with a user experience team but I'd hope the general feeling expressed by members of the community would be sufficient enough for BE management to sit up and take notice. I mean surely the fact that you are losing existing customers at the moment and having to resort to heavily discounting current licensing to attract new customers tells you that the current strategy isn't working?

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bschmidt25's picture

Matt, I appreciate you keeping up updated on product development.  I'm not going to shoot the messenger.  But you have to understand that it becomes harder and harder for us to propose and defend Backup Exec as a backup solution when the entire IT organization is held back because of it.  Eventually, our hand is forced to look at alternatives.  I'll echo what a few other have said.  You guys are behind the 8-ball now.  If Server 2012 was a challenge, what confidence are we supposed to have that you are going to be able to handle the transition to 2012 R2 any better?  We are preparing to move to Exchange 2013.  Because there is no timetable for GRT support in Ex2013, our decision has been made for us.  Nearly all of our backups will be moved over to Veeam once version 7 is released.  Backup Exec will only be used for a dwindling number of physical servers.  It's really a shame.  I've been using Backup Exec for years and always had good luck with it.  But the bottom line is that there are other solutions that support our requirements now, so that's where we need to go.

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Cwooddell's picture

I have been a raving Backup Exec fan since the Veritas days. Symantec has come a long way with the product since then, and made many improvements. For example, when implementing a new BE installation, I no longer have to budget in 4 hours (not kidding) to talk to the licensing department to fix licensing issues like I had to back when Veritas was at the helm.

I was seriously let down with the quality of Backup Exec 2012. I lost a client because of my recommendation to upgrade from 2010 to 2012. I've very glad to hear your BE team is now serious about quality.

While the dev team may now be allowed to produce quality, the Symantec management team needs to either poop or get off the pot. Quality vs. speed arguments ring hollow when the competition is performing so much better at releases in both speed and quality (in the sense of being less buggy - I still think Symantec wins on features.)

Symantec management needs to decide if they're serious about continuing to play in the SMB space> If so, they need to make whatever changes internally (be it increased resources or whatever) to remain competitive.

Matt, your hedge about WS12R2 just underscores this. Yes, it will be a challenge, but in the end nearly every IT challenge is ultimately about how much money/manpower you need to throw at it. Symantec needs to show that it is willing to invest more of both in the product to stay relevant.

 

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VirtualJG's picture

The totality of the problem is in the fine print at the end of that document linked from IMW:

"NO WARRANTY. Symantec makes this document available AS-IS, and makes no warranty as to its accuracy or use. The information contained in this document may include inaccuracies or typographical errors, and may not reflect the most current developments, and Symantec does not represent, warrant or guarantee that it is complete, accurate, or up-to-date, nor does Symantec offer any certification or guarantee with respect to any opinions expressed herein or any references provided. Changing circumstances may change the accuracy of the content herein. Opinions presented in this document reflect judgment at the time of publication and are subject to change. Any use of the information contained in this document is at the risk of the user.

 

Here's your sign....

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IMW's picture

........ I think you must have taken this from the BE 2012 administrators guide - ;)

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SBS John's picture

Its real easy to say its one thing or another but the fact is everything about the way the product is handled is a factor from research and development to support.

We started moving away from BE when they changed the interface and it lost many of the useful features, which made using the product much more difficult then it was in the previous versions. (ie, not being able to target next run times, can't cancel/hold all jobs at once, replacing 1 job backing up 20 servers with 20 seperate jobs to manage, an so on....) That cost us time and money in administration overhead, and caused much frustration that sent us looking for other solutions.

Now we have clients that are already on BE who we can't upgrade or replace their servers unitl a compatable product is released, or they lose there investment in backup hardware, media, archive recovery capabilites. We have to deal with them, they are not happy, and so when we setup new systems for clients, we think "do we want to go through this in the future". Answer = "no"

I understand the need to release a dependable product, but there is also a need to have a firm understanding of what end users really need and get it into their hands quickly and efficiently. I don't see how BE can compete if Symantec doesn't realize that and overcome those obsticals.

We have used BE for years and years, and we are not placing any new clients on it. Unless we see major changes in the overal product support, development, features, and reliabiliy with the clients that still use it, I am not sure we will again.

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KZW_Austria's picture

It's really frustrating to see the Symantec support strategy. 
Currently no W2012 Support, not really reliable workung BE2013..
I currently have a open BE2012R2 case with a problem of restoring a public folder in Exchange 2010. Symantec knows this since 2011 - have opend a case in May. Fix is really easy (only add a server name in Query) but engineers are not able to fix it.
If engineers are incapable to fix a little bug like this - how will it be in W2012 support?
We need to install W2012 servers but have no official support for BE. All projects are delayed about this circumstance.
I don't know why we buy maintenance. Very frustrating.....

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CraigV's picture

...the Beta that is going on (patch to be released soon!) addresses the RAWS-side of things for Win2K12 on BE 2012 (BE 2013 doesn't exist).

If you have issues with BE 2010 R2 (I assume that?) then get it escalated. I've done this many times...don't feel bad for doing so. If you're not getting the help you want/need, then escalation to a higher tier engineer is what you should be doing.

Windows Server 2012 will only be supported as a media server in future, but for now they're finalising the support for installing RAWS on it.

Thanks!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

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KZW_Austria's picture

@CraigV : I have escalated it to the highest level. (think 4 levels above standard support team) - waiting for fix over 1 month since last escalation...

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CraigV's picture

...maybe get hold of 1 of the SYmantec employees here (Colin Weaver, lmosla, Donald Eady) and send them a PM with the number and see if they can assist you...

Thanks!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

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Jaydeep S's picture

I am reviewing the case and also have forwaded the details to the concerned team. I will post here as soon as I have a response.

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Clifton Hastings's picture

I think at this point, that it's all just a little too late. You have those in IT who don't care when things get updated, and those who always want to be on the latest and greatest. According to this fellow, 2012 R2 should reach General Availability in October of this year: http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=15173

So in August we will have a six month window for when BE will be updated, so that probably means minimally we are looking at February of 2014. I totally get the quality over quantity argument, of course we all want the software to work and work well. But when we can look at other vendors who are releasing updates on time and of high quality, it is hard to rationalize staying with Backup Exec, no matter how much I like the product.

I mean the SQL Engine in Backup Exec 2012 is still based on SQL Server 2005! 2005?! SQL Server 2014 is entering CTP as we speak!

For me the perfect storm won't be over until the latest products are supported 2 months after release MAX. My licenses for Backup Exec renew early next year, and at that time if I don't see the ability to install the media server on 2012 R2 and RAWS, Exchange 2013 GRT, and full Hyper-V support, I have no choice but to look elsewhere.

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CDixon's picture

Shame on me for misunderstanding some Symantec bulletins regarding Symantec BE 2012 SP2.  I thought the beta for this was going to be out in May and general release in July and we would be covered for Windows Server 2012 at that point. I now understand that this is just as a remote agent. All of our servers are now Windows 2012. So BE  won't be ready to run natively on Windows Server 2012 untill well into 2014 it sounds like? I can't tell you how big of a problem this is for us. I assume there are a lot of folks in the same situation I am in. What product is everyone going to be using? I am just in disbelief on this.

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SBS John's picture

OMG! I read that wrong too! BE for our new servers won't be available until next year?

I've been tellin our clients wait for a few months, and now it will release in July. We have upgrade projects on hold.

Can't wait that long. Gotta move on to something else.

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Drew Meyer's picture

Hold on a sec folks.

1. The Service Packs will be out before the end of July (unless, of course, disaster strikes, but then we'd tell you). So far we are on track.

2. The Windows Server 2012 support is the agent only. We've tried to make that pretty clear in all of the posts since the beta was announced.

3. We have not communicated a date for Windows Server 2012 R2 support (or, for that matter, vSphere 5.5). We have said that patform support is our number one priority, so please don't start assuming it will be next year. More details when we can be sure we deliver.

 

 

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

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BJA32810's picture

1. The Service Packs will be out before the end of July (unless, of course, disaster strikes, but then we'd tell you). So far we are on track.

 

This has been said before.  We're getting closer to the end of July, it's reasonable for people to start expecting an exact date rather than having the same statement repeated over and over.

For those of us who have been lied to by Symantec before regarding windows 2012 support, it takes more than vague timelines to make me believe it's actually happening.  A date, that's all I want.  

I was told in January, before I purchased Backup Exec 2012, that it would support remotely backing up windows 2012.   Turned out to be a lie just to get me to shell out money for the software.   Then your fabulous tech support refused to help me whatsoever.  they're answer even after escalating, was "Windows 2012 is not supported in any way.  goodbye"

 

So tell me Drew, what makes you any more reliable when you won't release a specific date.  You've been saying nothing more than July for several months now.  It's July 17.  Time to get more specific if you want people to actually believe you are on track.

 

 

 

3. We have not communicated a date for Windows Server 2012 R2 support (or, for that matter, vSphere 5.5). We have said that patform support is our number one priority, so please don't start assuming it will be next year. More details when we can be sure we deliver.

 

Drew, we make plans based on previous experience.  From Posts made by other Symantec Employees,, Symantec didn't even start planning Windows 2012 support until November 15 of last year, when Windows 2012 was finalized in first week of Sept 2012.   Already a month late in planning.  Why were you not planning when Windows 2012 was in beta?

You are behind the gun supporting Windows 2012.   Windows 2012 R2, by your own employees admissions will be just as big of a challenge to support as 2012 R1, which still isn't supported at this time.

Take Microsoft for Example.   They released Windows8/Server 2012 beta's in June 2012.  They went RTM in late August.   With Windows 8.1/Server 2012 R2, they again released beta's in June 2013 and appear to be on the same time table for final release this year.  

We drraw from prior experience unless we are GIVEN HARD EVIDENCE to the contrary.   All stetements I've read lead me to believe that Symantec hasn't evven begun working on Media Server support for Windows 2012, much less given any thought or attention to Windows Server 2012 R2.

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Tallwood6's picture

Indeed the service pack isn't actually released and doesn't even fully support all the features of products released last year. Publish some roadmaps and timescales and perhaps people might have a bit more faith.

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JStellato's picture

First of all, let me say this about Symantec.  Watching this all go down has been painful for all of us, not only because we aren't getting the platform support we want.  It feels as though we've been watching our best friend getting punched in the face over and over again not fighting back, and we are just standing there watching.

The people of the forums aren't coming here complaining because they want Symantec to fail, quite the contrary, we are all so invested in the company that we want it to succeed.

However just reading the employee comments frustrates me, if platform support was number 1 it should have been done long ago.

There are too many features being added in to have it completed in a reasonable time.  I want to go back to the Apple example of copy and paste.  Most of us think that feature is necessary, but what was more necessary was the iPhone making calls.

Symantec thinks, support for ALL things at launch is the top priority, but that's not the case.  Support for major platform IS required, but the features can be deployed after the fact via SP's.

1.  Support to installed Media Server and File Level Backup of the latest releases of Server is #1

The reason is for SMB's and System Integrators (like whom I represent) are constantly buying single server, or dual server installations, and they always have the latest release of Windows Server on it.  If your software cannot be installed or do a simple file backup at release it has failed.  100% of installations occur on Windows, cover this first.

2.  Add New OS Feature Support as a Secondary task.  If the project goes long and you realize we won't have Hyper-V 3/Exchange 2013 SP1 support done in time, at LEAST get the file backup working so we can limp everyone along.  It people will figure out a way to make it work, but we need the tool first. Yes we'll complain, but we won't switch, we are too invested.

3.  Add extended agent features next (VM-Ware, Exchange, SQL etc)

4.  Work on innovations last

Let me say this, as I speak for countless SMB's out there, if BE2012/2010 supported being installed on 2012 R1 at release as a media server and an agent, but ONLY supported File Backup, you would not be in the situation you are currently in.

The most disconcerting thing we see, is that this beta service pack doesn't solve the #1 problem that should have been solved.  Therefore the backlash.

 

 

 

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playpiano's picture

Complitely agree.

I've just renewed some of our customers maintenance... hoping that some magical will happen.

I'm a developer and MSDN subscriber: i suppose Symantec has at least my level of agreement to develop software on Microsoft platform; i mean that you know that ws2012 was available for so much time.... and before was in beta...

Simply i don't understand why Symantec is not yet ready.

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JuergenB's picture

Hi,

had to renew my maintenance contract in Mai.

After a call with to a symantec representative i was given 90 more days to renew my contract till 08 August.
But i am still not willing to get a new maintenance in August.

 

So i will start deploying DPM 2012 SP1, this product does all i need right now!
 

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Drew Meyer's picture

Hey gang - new platform support on two major releases while improving quality on both and delivering in parallel isn't an easy trick.

JStellato is on track with our thinking above, we're pushing features like GRT out in order to get some form of Windows support delivere earlier. We would all like to avoid the compromises and get stuff out faster but not without high quality. There's no point in unreliable platform support.

Roadmaps (including platform support for SP1 and vsphere 5.5) are coming. But we've overpromised and underdelivered with BE2012 last year and we will not do that again. You may want to check my progress update blog entry to see how the first 6 months of this year have gone in our say/do ratio.

And yes, the Service Packs are aimed for before the end of July. That's July 31 if you require a date, and we may even beat that. Regardless, in 14 days we can prove ourselves.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

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frio's picture

@Drew is there anything you can share about Linux platform support yet?

Distributions with Kernel 3.x+ support become more present in production (Debian 7, Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, SLES 11 SP2) and yet we either don't backup or need "hack" it to run on these kernels (which for sure is unsupported)

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andye88's picture

Just a quick note to echo the sentiments of all the other admins in this forum.  I set up a new server in February with W2012 with, vain hopes of having BE media server support soon but it was not to be and now I can't wait any more and have had to back off to W2008R2 and forego the great new features of W2012 (dedupe and Refs for example).

I've been using an old installation of BE that I inheritted (12.5) and have installed 2012 on the my new server. I totaly agree with what others have said, about BE2012, the changes are very annoying.  As SBS John said, not being able to have more than one server in a single job anymore is one the biggest changes that makes no sense at all.  How much user acceptance testing was done before releasing this?

So SP2 is due out before the end of the month yet there is still no firm announcement.  Disturbing.....

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AKAbboud's picture

It's July 25th. One more week until July 31st.

Tick-tock, tick-tock ;-)

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JStellato's picture

Not sure what the tick tock represents, the only thing that is coming on July 25th is official disapointment.  I'm fairly certain 80% of the people reading these forums still don't understand that you will not be able to install Backup Exec on a 2012 Server.

You will only have the ability to back it up.  So single server SMB's still can't use Server 2012, long into 2013, and more and more looking like 2014.

BE 2012 should have been abandoned, and 2010 made to install on 2012.  That would have solved a lot of development timing problems.

I also feel as though development resources have been redirected to work on the "cloud" backup exec and "endpoint" prematurely.

They should all be put into fixing this absurd problem rather than creating new cloud products.

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mgamiet's picture

I agree that 2012 should have been abandoned and 2010 been the way forward. I tried to work with 2012 but it was 3 months of frustration so I rolled back to 2010. Now I am trapped when we rollout 2012 servers, I won't be able to back them up!

I'm sorry Symantec, retiring policies was a bad idea. Is there any chance that the 2010 interface/functionality will be an option in future releases?

 

M

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Drew Meyer's picture

Gents, please see the latest blog entry announcing the release of the service packs.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

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Jaydeep S's picture
The much awaited Service Packs are released.
 
Backup Exec 2010 R3 revision 5204 Service Pack 3
http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH203157
 
Backup Exec 2012 revision 1798 Service Pack 2
http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH203155

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andye88's picture

Great, now we can at least backup W2012.

Any idea when the next SP is coming out ("Columbus")?  I'd really like to get back to the Jobs-based view back we previously had and lose this incredibly inefficient server-centric method.  The BE2012 UI makes me think of Windows 8's Metro/Modern UI on a desktop/laptop.  Change that does not bring improvement.

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Jaydeep S's picture

Unfortunately, we dont have information about when is the next release to come at this time.

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tekproducts's picture

So let me get this straight. This whole time you have been in Beta and claim to be working on a solution to Backup our 2012 servers and then it is released and CANNOT be installedo n Server 2012. What good is the software if I can't install it? I can install a remote agent, but where do I install the actual Backup Exec Server? If all my servers are now 2012. WAY TO DROP THE BALL. The operating system has been out for 1 1/2 years now and Symantec HAD TO HAVE received the RTM 6 months before that. I'm done messing with this, and not being able to backup my servers. You lost a customer that has been a great supporter up until now. Now the application is useless. You might as well discontinue it, as no one can use it anymore anyways. Get your act together, now for me to go and get my 2 grand back and spend it elsewhere.

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andye88's picture

I heard a rumour from a Symantec tech that BE2012R2 may be released as soon as next month.  Anybody else heard anything about this?

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CraigV's picture

...nothing has been mentioned on the forums, and considering that Symantec have just released SP2 for BE 2012 and SP3 for BE 2010 R3, I suspect the Symantec tech has his information wrong.

No Beta announcement...that said, it would be great to get something like that soon!

Thanks!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

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PackMatt73's picture

CriagV is correct.  There has been no announcement about the next release of Backup Exec.

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GeorgeSVA's picture

 

Absolutley disgraceful - no other way to put this. Symantec is a poster child for the Red Queen Syndrome - how you can say with a straight face that your company is delivering 'quality' (the #1 nonsense word of our time) is beyond me.

 

Also your beta tests are ridiculous jokes. Anything you don't want to hear goes right into the circular file. Very much evident with the monstrosity that BE 2012 is (and continues to be).

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PackMatt73's picture

Hi George -

Have you taken part in the betas?  If your experience was not good, I'm curious to hear what the issues were.  Feel free to DM me and I will send you my direct contact info.

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Nettop's picture

Shame on you Symantec! I don't like the 2012 version it's to complicate as the 2010 was easyer. And now you don't offer support of BE on server 2012 like other manufactures does?

 

Shame on you Symantec!!

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GeorgeSVA's picture

Nettop,

 

Don't waste your breath. Symantec no longer listens to anything its experienced admin. community says.

They just shovel endless piles of corporate BS our way and expect us to continue to use and endorse their garbage.

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norcalty's picture

BE 2012 has been a horrible experience for me thus far.  We bought it so we could backup newer servers. Installed it on 2008 R2 (on a brand new machine) and from day 1 it's been buggy.  Getting it to write multiple jobs to a single tape, good luck.  The interface will freeze and then once it comes back the services don't seem to work so I close it and reopen it and it won't login because the services are messed up.  Try to restart the services within BE and it gets stuck restarting the service so we have to reboot it just to get BE to login to itself again.  We're at the point we are thinking of uninstalling and trying Acronis or BE 2010.  Also we bought a 2012 server only to find out that over a year after 2012 being released this company still has yet to release a version of their software that will allow an install in 2012.  I've used this product for years and had moments of love/hate but until this version I have never considered switching to another product.   Top it off with a completely unintuitive interface and this has been a nighmare for us.

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Nettop's picture

Don't waste your time.

I installed yesterday ArcServe Backup 16.5r. Installed and configured in 30 Minutes on Server 2012, deployed agents to other 2012 servers, easy to configure and working like it should and not on server 2008.

I'm waiting now for a offer from Arcserve for a cross upgrade because I'm no longer willing to solve the software problems for symantec and I need a working backup for my customers.

Until the version 12.5 BE was ok, some problems but not so big, since the version 2010 we only have problems and not one customer with one working backup all the time.

The version 2012 is not usual, to many problems an to complicate to install and configure, and never try to upgrade an existing old version to 2012 it will end in reinstalling cleaning the registry and losing the jobs, media pools and so on. Upgrades no longer works like before, you will never have a working backup.

 

No, as a partner since many years I would say "It's time to take another product which works"

I don't understand symantecs strategy, they should go back to the roots not to the mess.

 

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norcalty's picture

Anyone else find great alternatives for backing up servers to tape?  I'm going to check out Arcserv for sure.

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tekproducts's picture

I'm going with Yosemite by Barracuda.  It's much better priced, and closer to Backup Exec than Arcserv.  Also if you get the top package, under $2000, you can backup as many servers or desktops as you would like and just pay $250 a year to maintain the software. (Comes with unlimited support.)  Much better than Backup Exec which doesn't even work for all environments.

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GeorgeSVA's picture

I tried NovaStor, however there is no backward compatibiltiy with the BE meda/jobs. I have a lot of encrypted tapes stored offsite that I would need to be able to read.

Have to keep looking. There has to be an alternative to Symantec and their endless nonsense.

*****Hey, Symantec Management*****

Do you see what is happening here? While you are all giving each other high-fives at the company picnic, many of us are bailing out of your product that you no longer seem to care about. Wake up.

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Amy Dugdale's picture

GeorgeSVA - I am a member of the BE management team and I hear you. I would welcome the opportunity to speak directly via phone. Please send me a personal message if you would like to setup a call. - Amy

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GeorgeSVA's picture

Amy,

 

Way too late for that. Symantec is wrapped in its own BS and doesn't listen to a single

thing anyone says.

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Amy Dugdale's picture

GeorgeSVA - I’m sorry to hear you feel that way. The invitation remains open if you would like to discuss sometime in the future. - Amy

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GeorgeSVA's picture

Amy,

I'm not in least bit interested in the standard "I'm sorry" corporate brush-off.

I am interested in Symantec admitting how wrong it was/is and providing a

roadmap to getting this product back up to par.

 

I have a feeling the chances of the Earth reversing its rotation are somewhat better.

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mgamiet's picture

I have used BE since V8. Loved the product and made use of the policies to make life easier. Now, with 2012 we are unable to use policies in the way we do with 2010 so last year we rolled back to 2010 and things are good FOR NOW.

Now, we have to plan for V2010 obselescence and we won't go to 2012 unless they change it to include policies. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are looking to replace Symanted BE with another product. It's a shame as we have years of experience loaded into this product which will now go to waste as we learn the new one.

In my situation, we don't care about full server backup! I have to be able to back up about 50 servers choosing files / folders selectively as well as Exchange 2010 multi-site DAG. I could not do the multiple server, select files / folder backup in V2012 when I used it last year.

Is there any chance that 2012 will allow us to use policies simlar to 2010? Also, when WILL 2010 have support for 2012?

Also, why can't we re-run failed Dup to Tape jobs?

Also, why can't we duplicate jobs after they have run? I think I used to do this in previous versions but now I have to go through a torturous process of selecting each backup set then duplicating (with mixed results!!).

M

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Jaydeep S's picture
Multi Server selection in a backup job might get included in the future releases of Backup Exec. I am not sure if there would be policies as in 2010 or it would be implemented in some other way (For more information stay tuned for Beta Blogs). 
BE 2010 currently does support Windows Server 2012 for backups by installing a Remote Agent. This support has been added in Service Pack 3 which can now be applied via Live update.
 
I just tried to re-run a failed duplicate job by right click / run now and that works. Also, tried to duplicate job again by same method right click the job log (of a full to disk which was complete) and duplicate. It does work perfectly. Probabely, I am not able to understand your query clearly.
 

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mgamiet's picture

Thank you Jaydeep. I'm going to try to backup Server 2012 as well as Dup jobs in my BE2010. I'll let you know.

I won't upgrade to 2012 unless I can get multi-server jobs.

Thanks,

M

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lissl's picture

I have BE2012 running a Windows 2012 deduplication backup on a volume that is being deduped.

According to your release notes, Symantec does not support deduplication jobs on a Windows Deduplicated volume.  Is this correct?  According to the notes, it will only do regular non-deduped backups.  How can I estimate the amount of tape/disk that this will require?  And why is this not supported?  Does BE still dedupe the non-deduplicated backup?  Your documentation is very confusing.

What's new in Backup Exec 2012 SP2

Backup Exec 2012 Service Pack 2 supports Windows Server 2012 with some limitations. You cannot install a Backup Exec server on a Windows Server 2012 computer. However, you can use the Agent for Windows to back up and restore Windows Server 2012 computers with their operating systems and legacy features. You cannot install the Agent for Windows on ReFS volumes or any volumes that have been enabled for deduplication in Windows.

Windows Server 2012 notes

Backup Exec supports the backup of non-deduplicated data on any volumes that have Windows deduplication enabled. If you try to back up data from a volume that has Windows deduplication enabled, Backup Exec backs it up in its original, non-deduplicated format. Ensure that you have enough storage space for the non-deduplicated data before you run a backup.

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Jaydeep S's picture
Let me try to make this simple as even I was confused at a point only reading this.
 
1. Backup Exec does not support Windows Deduplication volume as a backup target. That is you can't setup a Backup to disk folder or a deduplication folder on such a volume.
2. Yes, backup Exec can backup a Windows Deduplication volume. However, the data is first hydrated and then backed up. What this means is data is back in its own size when you are backing up. So as an example 100 GB of data form a Windows Deduplicated volume when backed up may require a lot more that 100 GB Storage (B2D or Tape) as it will first be hydrated. Additionally to answer your question, if you target such backup to a deduplication folder then yes Backup Exec will deduplicate the data again while backing up. Now while restoring such data back to the Windows Deduplicate volume, it is restored in a hydrated form and will not auto trigger deduplciation. The trick is to restore chunks of data at a time and run a manual Deduplication job in Windows.
3. As for backing up Server 2012, you can install Backup Exec Remote Agent for Windows on it. However, Backup Exec can't b setup as a Media Server on Server 2012 OS. Additionally, Backup Exec can't be installed on a Windows deduplicated volume or an REFS file system. This is similar to most other applications, even Microsoft Applications.

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CDixon's picture

I posted back in July and it seems like we have received ZERO actionable information with respect to a product that runs natively on Windows Server 2012. Jumping to another product is difficult when you have old BE tape media that needs to be accessed. I feel like we are getting rogered but good over this.

I have received a lot blantantly incorrect information from Symantec. Here is the text from an email I received from Symantec support in response to a query from Symantec about how I was liking the  BE2012 trial.....(Spencer clearly didn't understand WS2012 was only supported for remote backups)

======================================================

From: name witheld

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:03 PM
To: Name withheld
Subject: RE: Your Symantec trial

That’s not true, it should be out the end of this month, maybe early August. Is what we’ve been told.

From: Name withheld
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Name Witheld
Subject: RE: Your Symantec trial

Spencer,

To be perfectly blunt, this has been a disaster for us. It is my understanding that Symantec will not have a release of Backup Exec that runs natively on Windows server 2012 until 2014?

All of our servers are now running Windows Server 2012.

Thanks

========================================================

I am also a Symantec AV customer. I can't tell you how many times I have had to use the free version of Malwarebytes to fix a PC where Symantec AV Corp Edition failed.

This whole series of events reminds me of watching Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect shrivel up and die back in the day. Symantec used to be a flagship company with industry leading products. You currently don't even have a product that backs up a Windows Server 2012 only environment. Hello?!?  Its almost 2014! I guess because Windows Server 2012 is produced by this little boutique indie firm up in WA that is not on Symantec's radar? 

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norcalty's picture

Hey Symantec Employees....

If I buy Backup Exec 2012 can I install Backup Exec 2010 instead?   2012 is not working for us but we never owned 2010 for this location.  

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Nettop's picture

you can call licensing support to receive a 2010 key to downgrade

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Amy Dugdale's picture

@norcalty I hear you and would like to help. Please DM and I will work with you on a resolution. - Amy

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Nettop's picture

norcalty

you can't install the media server on 2012, also the same with 2010. you only can install the agent on 2012.

at now you need to install the media server on 2008, no support for 2012

say thank's to symantec engineers

if you like to downgrade and install on 2008 you can license support

greets

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GeorgeSVA's picture

Yes, indeed.  Symantec - right on top of it.  And proud of it.

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GeorgeSVA's picture

All it means is that on October 18th Symantec will be yet one more OS behind.

However, they will continue to congratulate themselves on their hard work finally

pushing out an agent, and their steadfast refusla to admit that BE 2012 is a ridiculous mess.

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Nettop's picture

We installed SP2 form Backup Exec 2012, now we get one service crashed as described in this link

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH209777

As you can see, NO SOLUTION FOR THIS ERROR !!!!!!

And this Error

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH201649&actp=search&viewlocale=en_US&searchid=1377604249786

 

Thanks a lot again symantec for your great work.

 

One customer more to move to another vendor with working backup solution.

Now I hate Symantec Backup Exec

Is it what you prefere that we need to sell other products?

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Jaydeep S's picture
Nettop, could you please try to find these files in the Backup Exec installation directory:  bedscps.dll and bedsdb2.dll 
 
Once you find them, remove them, restart the Backup Exec services and try the backup again.

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Nettop's picture

Done, not working, same error, remote agent service on media server stops imediately after restart of services. same error in eventviewer as before.

 

We've no working backup now!

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Jaydeep S's picture

It is better if you call suport and escalate the case for a faster resolution.

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Nettop's picture

We opened a call, but with this procedure from symantec it can take days until we'll haeve a solution.

I give symantec 24h to solve the issue otherwise I'll install ArcServe Backup

I was a fan from symantec but I'm no longer willing to solve the problems for symantec.

If they mean to push out some software without deep testing the function I can't explain the outlay to my customers. Someone needs to pay my invoices and symantec don't pay it and my customers don't pay it either.

Symantec Software is a garant for headache for sure.

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Jaydeep S's picture

Could you message me the case number.

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Jaydeep S's picture

I have got the case escalated to the Advanced Team, you would receive a callback soon.

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Jaydeep S's picture

Nettopp, just got another update on this. Could you remove bedsspn.dll and restart the BE services. It should fix the problem.

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Nettop's picture

Hi Jaydeep

 

Thanks for your help, all the services are working now and I hope that this night the backup will run.

One little file with so big impact.

I had a call from symantec that they don't know why this was happen but that they will escalate this to the engineers.

Sorry, but I was not suprised that we have problems, we have so much problems with symantec software.

Please speak with the engineers that they shuold deep testing the software before they push it to the world.

But anyway, thanks for your help to find a solution for us.

Greetings

Dominik

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Jaydeep S's picture

Great!! I have escalated your case to a Advanced Engineer and have discussed the same solution with him. However, even if this works, we would request you to help him if he needs any logs so that this can be fixed permenantly by working with Engineering.

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Nettop's picture

We send yesterday a file of 100MB of logs to the FTP Server it should be enough :)

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Donald Eady's picture

Nettop, 

 

      Were you able to provide Jaydeep with a case number?? if please message me your open case number so that i can review it... 

I hope this posting was helpful

  

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lmosla's picture

Nettop,

I am sorry to hear about your frustration and dissilusionment with Backup Exec. Even though Jaydeep and Donald both have requested your case number to help out, please also message me your contact information if further assistance is needed in getting this resolved .

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JStellato's picture

I love that this got moved, the cynic in me thinks it was because it was top 5 on almost every backup server 2012 search on Google.

"I am sorry to hear about your frustration and dissilusionment with Backup Exec."

He is not dissilusioned, but thanks for the snarky comment towards your customers. 

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STG Group's picture

Hi Symantec Management,

Months ago (lost count) I bought BE2012 to install on Win2012, .....I'm still waiting, but not longer.

How many customers do you want to loose???

Need NOW a roadmap with dates.

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D.Snyder's picture

I think Backup Exec is driven to the wall. If in software projects, the structure is reasonably well maintained, it may be impossible to come to such problems. Now there is no time for the basics. I'll look around for alternatives.

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meanmay's picture

Can anyone recommend what product I can purchase to backup WS12? We didnt realize BE2012 could not be installed on the server and we just sold a new server for EMR (electronic medical records) to a large medical clinic. We have to have a way to backup the data and encrypt it per HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act).

 

Thanks, 

Tracy V. May

MnM Computer services

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Jaydeep S's picture

Backup Exec can be installed on the Server 2012 OS as a Remote Agent. If you have the Media Server setup on a supported OS, you can still use it to backup the data from the Server 2012 OS.

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GeorgeSVA's picture

You say that as if it is a completely acceptable situation.

Remarkable corporate culture at Symantec.

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