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Ability to bundle multiple servers in a single job

Created: 12 Jul 2012 • Updated: 19 Nov 2012 | 112 comments
GregOfBE's picture

Users including iammejutty; Steve Kratz; Mark McFarlane; PCTeamAdmin, among others requested the ability to bundle multiple servers in a single job.  We are happy to announce that In the next release of Backup Exec, the ability to bundle multiple servers returns.
 

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BobsBarlo's picture

Hi!

I am pleased to see that there is progress on this but we do need a date for "next release" as we need to plan if we need to replace Backup Exec with another application or wait. What is the expected ETA for this next release?

Regards

Kam-Hong BE RPM's picture

 

BobsBarlo, as a public company we are restricted from making specific date commitments. 

But if you will like to participate in the beta program, please see the post at https://www secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/new-beta-program-backup-exec-2012-r2. Or if you'd like to participate in individual usability studies, please send an email to beusability@symantec.com.

Slappy's picture

Why wait for the next release to implement something that everybody has relied on for years.  Bring it back NOW.

I can only assume that you are pushing this off to the next release so the company can get more yearly maintenance $$ from all of us.

 

Ken Putnam's picture

I can only assume that you are pushing this off to the next release so the company can get more yearly maintenance $$ from all of us.

 

or  because they have to rewrite a major portion of the base code??

So it will NOT be HotFix, but part of the "next release" (dot version)

 

At least they have seen how many folks are outraged and are willing to admit they made a mistake with their focus groups and beta testers!

If this response answers your concern, please mark it as a "solution"

Robert Blanchette's picture

Symantec has been talking about a fix for this mess for the past 2 months. Where is it?

So far BE 2012 is the worst piece of software I have every had the displeasure of using. What I would like to know is what software engineer thought it would be a good idea to totally trash the old backup model that has worked for the past decade or more? Splitting the jobs into individual servers makes absolutely no sense if you are backing up to tape. I have 11 servers to backup. So now, with this brilliant new paradigm, my tape gets to be moved into and out of the drive 11 times per day by the robotic library. I'm sure that's good for the longevity of the device and the tapes.

Here's another major problem. How to I string all my backups together on my tapes unless I erase them first? You can't. If you don't erase the tapes first, it will append the jobs until it hits the end of the tape, then it starts overwriting. You have no control of what gets overwritten. You can't set the jobs to overwrite the tape either because each successive job will simply overwrite the one you just completed. In the old model I simple set the job to overwrite every day and it wasn't a problem because all the servers were contained in that one job. It's supposed to span multiple tapes too but I haven't been able to make that work either. It used to work in 2010 but 2012 seems to be fixated on putting everything on the first tape in my partition. It's probably some minor setting I've missed that is buried 15 layers deep in the new interface.

Oh yeah. The performance of this new model sucks too. It takes at least 3 hours longer to back up all my servers than it did in 2010.

Here is some free advice. Stop trying to change things. Backup Exec is the premier backup product because IT people like me know how to use it and like the way it works. The only thing you need to do to improve it is make it faster and more reliable. We don't need any new paradigms we need a piece of software that gets the job done without causing undue irritation. You have failed to provide that with BE 2012. Fix it please and fix it fast because the frustration this is causing me is making think about a real paradigm shift in my backup model. I might just switch to VEEAM and give up on BE altogether.

the Hawk's picture

They (Symantec) lost my AV subscription business when they made Endpoint in 2008, I went with something else.  They're about to lose me with the last piece of Symantec owned software on BE 2012.  This thing is utterly inspid at how its structured.  Each server is its own job?  Instead of having a full backup job on a friday and ONE job log to look at, I have to sift thru 16 different 'jobs'.  Sorry Symantec, this is much more cumbersome to navigate around in.  I'm gonna uninstall and reload BE 2010 on my servers (physical and Virtual) and re-push out the old agents.  Since I'm under maintenance for 2 more years, I'm sure to get the next crappy product they create for Backups which I hope is eons better than this. 

I am highly dissapointed, and I've been using Backup Exec since the late 90's through my IT career.  Don't make it more cumbersome and convoluted, which your focus groups comprised of 18-21yr olds think is the 'new cool' way to do things.  Listen to the veteran IT Directors who have much more real world experience than some 22yr old, new to IT beause they're the hipster who can configure the CEO's iPhone, does. 

Elizabeth Teffner's picture

Hello!

Durring the week of August 20th, I am looking for user feedback regarding multi-server backup jobs in an upcoming release of Backup Exec.

If you are interested, please check out the schedule of sessions I have available.

These sessions take one hour of your time and you can participate from the comfort of your home or office. You will be logging into a WebEx session using our test machines to view the new multi-server features.

If you have any questions, please feel free to DM me.

Regards,

Elizabeth Teffner

dwade11's picture

I am more than a little upset with the new 2012 version.

I have 8 severs with 14 different jobs and an incremental, scheduled out for the

next two years. This"Server"based job structure is driving me crazy. I have not

successfully backed up all of the servers for two weeks becuase of the changes.

I had one job to check each morning I now have 9 and they don't run properly.

I get this "The job missed its scheduled start time by more than 15 minutes. The job will be rescheduled for the same time the following day."   and I don't want the job rescheduled! I want them to work.

 

Not happy,

Dave Wade

Maxgeo's picture

PLease include me in any new hotfixes/updates that address this issue.

Like Robert above (agree on all counts) I am DUMBFOUNDED why a winning piece of software was re-written like it has been in 2012. What were you thinking? Maybe it would suit a first time home user, but I have been a sys admin for 15 years and know my back-up software, butw hat about us that have 50-100+ servers??  BE 2010 made sense and was intuitive. It worked, I could administer all servers in one hit. BE 2012? now ways.

I have been flat out trying to get 2012 working form scratch for the last 3 months and still spend half my day nutting out the issues and with tech support. Our backups to tape never work, need twice as many tapes and take twice as long. My BE 2012 server list only shows red crosses for pretty much every server and its a depressing sight every morning when you check your backups and all you see is red. ven if 99% gets backed up, still red. Bah.

The 'pretty' pie graphs and icons meant to make things look nice, just show red crosses, error alerts, and pie graph is 90% red.

a-ron's picture

I installed Backup Exec 2012 at the first of my clients today - Took me a bit to figure things out again...

 

But first of all, the job monitor sucks. I can see the active job at the bottom, but no way to see it - this was the case during Inventory jobs.  Why cant you click the Active Job button at the bottom and go straight to the monitor ? Terrible...

 

And NOW, I'm seeing we can't do Multiple servers in a single job ??? Are you kidding Symantec ???

 

And you've wanted people to wait months for something that is a basic feature in any backup software ? not to mention something you've had in previous versions ???

This is peoples BACKUPS, not exactly something IT folk take lightly. We dont have time for this crap. WTF are you guys smoking over there ?

Brutal....rolling back to 2010 tomorrow I guess.

 

lol, marking all the Symantec Employee posts as 'Offensive', because that's what they are. What a joke.....I'll be fore-warning the other 30 technicians in my company, and our sales department of this.

Elizabeth Teffner's picture

a-ron - I totally understand that you feel you have to roll back to 2010, but would you be interested (willing?) to take a look at what we have in development? 

You touched on some pain points: job monitor, multi-server backup jobs, active jobs...  We have updates to remedy these issues and I'd really love for you to take a look at this and give me your feedback.  I have a full environment virtually setup and I would really like to know if what we are working on will solve the problems you are having with the new version.

If you are interested, check out the available times.

Regards... Elizabeth

a-ron's picture

I'll admit I'm sorry for the harsh comments last night - I spent a good part of the day getting everything up and running for a client, then logged on after hours to finish pushing out agents- then discover the issue with backing up multiple servers.

 

But, like I said - I don't have time for anything like that. I work in a managed services scenario and Upgrading to Backup Exec was part of a large project with strict timelines.

Actually, as I type this, Backup Exec 2010 is installing.  I called Symantec Licensing this morning to downgrade.

 

Good luck with your situation over there.

a-ron's picture

Oh BE 2010....How I've missed you.  Also, it's able to backup my Windows 2000 server !  Win x2 !

strims's picture

I actually thought this was a problem for me because my lack of knowledge of the new 2012 interface (I've been using backup exec since it was Veritas). After being frustrated over the past month I finally decided to google "mulitiple servers one job symantec 2012" only to get here as a result. I cannot believe the product was intentionally modified this way! Who in their right mind could even fathom that this was an improvement for administrators??? Wow. We are now looking at Barracuda devices to acheive our backups. Backup is very important but shouldn't require hours every day to manage it. Symantec, you really screwed up on this one.

danger240v's picture

I’ve used and recommended Backup Exec for my customers since Seagate owned it. No more.

The 2012 interface is one of the least intuitive interfaces I’ve ever used. I’ve had to research how to perform the most straightforward of tasks and then research why it didn't do what I expected. I’m not saying 2010 was perfect but it was far more straightforward and people have grown up with it.

All of the ‘improvements’ pipelined for 2012 (like multiple servers per job) is simply putting back stuff that was already in 2010, so to avoid having to contact Symantec to get a downgrade, why not just re-release 2010 and let the customer make their choice? 2012 will soon find itself in the same dustbin as Microsoft Flight.

2012 forced me to do something that was long overdue and we've now changed our backup solutions to use block-level backup software (ShadowProtect). If I’m stuck with a tape drive somewhere and 2010 is no longer available, I’ll just have to find something else.

Symantec take pure and functional products that people have used happily for years and eventually turn them into bloated and unreliable dross.

 

VVito's picture

 

Symantec is the market leader in backup and recovery, offering solutions for companies of all sizes.

Symantec decided to change the user interface to give to the end users a better visibility of the protected environment and also a better future along the evolution of the backup and recovery technologies.  

Elizabeth, is conducing remote usability sessions to gather user feedback on Backup Exec and there are some date still available in September to talk to our customers to better understand their needs and be sure our technologies can satisfy the widest area of customers. Please, subscribe to her invitation to give your feedback.

Kind Regards

strims's picture

Symantec believes a priority in backup software for admins should be a visually appealing app? 2012 looks like a kiddie video game. Mission accomplished. I need function and reliability with ease of management, not bubbles.

danger240v's picture

I agree, one of the customers we upgraded to 2012 has low bandwidth and remote controlling the BE console through a RDP session is a pain as you have to wait for the screen to refresh all the graphical rubbish. Will marketing people ever realise that IT admins aren't impressed by flashy graphics that needlessly use up half the screen?

Gregorious's picture

Wow, should have done some more reading before assuming BE2012 would be an improved 2010.

Glad its still in trial mode as I am struggling to backup to tape & just don't have the time to continue stuffing about.

G

tonywu's picture

Is this a strategy to push customers to use netbackup ? Pls change back the console and formal disk folders.

I can't tolerant the console keeps killing itself when I cleaning up the backup set in the storage interface

kfichtner's picture

A buddy of mine told me that after upgrading he had to redo all his jobs, I thought it was a glitch and we made sure to document all our jobs and selections in case it happend to us.  Little did I know that what happened was that the jobs were not brought in because it cannot be converted to the new selection/job backup.

 

I cannot wait until the new version comes out to fix all the issues with jobs.  I hope others read this and do not upgrade to Backup Exec 2012 until that fix.

CraigV's picture

...this issue was well documented in March when BE 2012 was released. Guys were caught very unawares about the change.

Seriously though, there is a link a couple of posts above to join the Beta programme of BE 2012 R2. You might want to try getting onto that.

Your reasoning was also the reasoning why I never upgraded.

Thanks!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

stc74's picture

My god I just got 2012 what a complete POS! Been using Backupexec since before Symantec bought it from Veritas. All I can say is that I'm completley speechless. It's worked just fine for me throughout the years, I guess it was pretty stupid of me to think that 2012 would let you backup all servers to tape on one job like it always had.

Complete crapola. Went to GFI for my antivirus last year, may have to go elsewhere for my backup solution as well.

CraigV's picture

  

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

stc74's picture

bought it with new servers Running exchange 2010 and 2008 R2. Did not think a radical change like this would take place, reseller sure didn't mention it. I just can't imagine why this change would be made...I guess someone realized how stupid it is...hence the beta... Bang up job Symantec, thanks for making my job easier. /sarc off

W.Lee's picture

I've been using BE since the Veritas days.  I cannot imagine why Symantec would take a simple, easy and intuitive way to backup servers and toss it out the window.  I would rather go back to using command line NTBACKUP with a batch file and scheduling than use BE 2012.  Unfortunately Microsoft got rid of NTBACKUP as well.

After installing BE2012, my 2 backup jobs exploded to 38 backup jobs to monitor!!!  And uses 3 LTO 800/1600 tapes!!!

Since we just renewed our maintenance, it looks like we will be wiping our backup server and UPGRADE to BE 2010.

slappeee's picture

I decided to stay with the 2012 and work through all the garbage of getting each server based backup job to work correctly on to one tape.  The only problem now is how to change the order of the server being backed up.

With the future release of the update that will put back the job based backup, I will be interested as to how it will handle the ability to "convert" my now "server based" to "job based" backup (if an option at all).  The conversion of job to server based in the 2012 upgrade was terrible and needed a lot of work to make them usable.

My other gripe is that people are still upgrading the software and experiencing the crap we all went through. Did Symantec at least update the installer to include a HUGE warning message??  Informing the user that the upgrade will convert their existing job based backup jobs to a server base backup?????

 

 

Mhystique's picture

To answer our first problem, here is what we did. We simply made the jobs to start at a later time. BE will then queue it, and start when all the preceding jobs are done.

EG:
Server 1 starts at 10
Server 2 starts at 10:15

and so on

If you what to change the order, you then have to do it by manipulating the time for the job, and the jobs around it.

slappeee's picture

Thanks for your reply:

I already tried that.  For some reason it still holds the same routine no matter what time I change the start times.  Doesn't make sense.  There is one job that I had to delete and recreate because the conversion to 2012 really messed it up.  So I recreated the job and this is the job that will only start after all the other jobs are completed.  Even though I have the time of the job set to one minute after the second job and all the rest of the jobs to kick off one minute after that job (hope that makes sense).  So the start times are setup for the 1st job-10pm, 2nd job-10:01 and 3rd job-10:02 and the other jobs-10:03.

All the other server job (of them) for the most part held the order in which they ran prior to the conversion to server base jobs. Of course I had to modify all of them to get them to go on one tape.  First by changing the time on the first job to one minute before all the other jobs and then changing the overwrite settings for the media. 

The other question that comes up is what is the logic for what server job starts backing up when you have all of them starting at one time like 10pm?

 

lmosla's picture

Hey Slappeee, 

try changing the priority of your backup jobs. 

On the Backup and Restore tab or the Storage tab, double-click the server or the storage device where the job is scheduled to run.       In the left pane, click Jobs.       Right-click the scheduled job, and then click Change Priority.   Select the new priority.  see attached

 

 

lmosla's picture

sorry here is the attachment

prioritize.JPG
slappeee's picture

ah ha.. . .thought that they were all set to highest, but this job was not.  Made the change.  Will see tonight if that did the trick or not.

Thanks for your help.

-b

lmosla's picture

good, I'll keep my fingers crossed

slappeee's picture

That was the ticket.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Can't beleive I missed that.

Have a great weekend.

-b

lmosla's picture

Hi slappeee,

Cool!     Thanks.

Elizabeth Teffner's picture

Hello Everyone!

I need more feedback regarding multi-server backup jobs!  This time I need feedback on upgrading your multi-server backup jobs from BE 2010 to an upcoming release of Backup Exec.

So these sessions will be different.  I want everyone who participates to use their own data, so to participate, you will need to send me a copy of your BE database (I will send instructions).  Also, your database will be secured!

Before your session, I'll be taking your database and installing it in a VM with your current version of BE 2010. Durring the session, you'll run through the upgrade on that VM and get to see how your multi-server jobs will upgrade.

What I'm looking for:

  • How well this works for you
  • Is functionality that you need missing
  • What you like/dislike

If you are interested, please check the available sessions.  Once you select a time, I'll get you the instructions to FTP a copy of your database up, but I can't hold the session till it's been received.

These sessions are very different than my normal usability sessions, if you have ANY questions, please don't hesitate to contact me either via email directly or post it here!!

Regards... Elizabeth

 

JC777's picture

I have to admit that I very disappointed.  I installed BE 2012 without checking the forum.  Mistake #1.  I went from using 12.5 right to 2012.  Mistake #2.  I'm seriously considering uninstalling 2012 and starting over from scratch (installing BE 2010).  My only concern is that I invested a lot of time getting BE 2012 configured with a new tape drive.  Can someone give me a suggestion on resolving this problem with backing up multiple servers on a single tape like I could in 12.5? 

SymDerp's picture

Seems like everything this company gets its hands on goes to crap. EndPoint, Internet Security. These products are soo bloated, run so slow, kill the machine they are running on and to top it off, don't stop a thing.

Backup Exec. Worked great when Veritas owned it. No pretty screens it just worked. Why didn't it have pretty screens when Veritas owned it? Probably because they knew what we know. Servers are lucky to have 8MB of video memory. Servers don't need to be weighed down by bloaty software (they are never fast enough for the end user as it is).

Spent thousands of dollars over the years since Symantec has owned it and it has gotten worse every year.

Symantec you ruined AV protection so I left you for a better product.

Symantec you ruined backup protection so everyone should leave you. You can't be trusted with people's most important asset. Their data.

 

Joseph Nicoletti's picture

We have decided not to renew our support with Symantec.  They are unable to develope for what the customer really needs and their support people are unable to...well, support their product.  We have had nothing but problems with Symantec and their backup software, especially when we upgraded to 2012.(HUGE MISTAKE).    We are now looking for a better solution for our data backups.  I too, miss Veritas!

 

slappeee's picture

It would be in the best interest for Symantec to extend the support contracts for all the people that are affected by this debacle.  This would be the "right" thing to do.

They obviously know they made a booboo and are in the midst of trying to fix it.

-b

Drew Meyer's picture

Fair point. We are extending 2010 support so you have a choice of when to migrate to 2012, after you are good and satisfied that the migration will be seamless.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

Sam_India's picture

Guys,

Is there any update on this (Ability to add Multiple Servers on single Job)? have Symantec released any patches??? How to go about this?? Please reply...

Bye

Sam.

 

slappeee's picture

Still waiting.  There was another round of testing the beta that was being peformed about a month ago.

Not sure what ETA is.  Hopefully 1st quater of 2013.

We will give them till then before we jump ship to another product.

 

BretBowlby's picture

What a piece of garbage!!!   Still haven't found a way to fix this multiple servers to a single job issue.  I'm really really disappointed in Backup Exec 2012.  We already have a license for 2010, I might as well just see about canceling this 2012 license and stick with 2010!  What Symantec is doing is just horrible,  today I will start scouting out a new backup solution and be done with this.

jabbman42's picture

OK.  Help me out here so how does this single server thing work.  First off do I have to initialize (clear) the tape before I begin writting the backups each night?  Since I have to set each one to append due to the fact that they are done individually, I guess they will try to append to a tape if its not empty.  Second, how do the verifies work do you have to write and verify before going to the next server who then writes and verifies and so on.  It seems like it would try to write during a verify and then die.  Third,  how do I know how much time to give each job.  It tends to vary.  If the first server is not done before I tell the second server to kick off will it die.  

I want my single jobs back.  Is this coming soon?  Any word of a release date?

 

 

lbower's picture

Also interested to know about a release date/time frame.  You don't have to tell us March 1st @ 12:01am PST, just say by the end of March, or even better, February.  I have held off on moving any of my clients to BUE 2012 because of the above mentioned issues.  My immediate problem is I have a new installation coming up in the next month or so, and I will have to use BUE 2012 against my better judgment.

I won't waste my time bashing Symantec, but I will say you do your customers a complete dis-service by 1.) Releasing this version and 2.) taking an excruciatingly long time to release the update which should have stayed in the original build.

I can see that Symantec personnel are monitoring this thread; do us a favor and give us some new information please.

Slappy's picture

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!UPDATE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too will be jumping ship at the end of the month.  Can't go on forever with hope and dreams that this will ever get fixed.

I was in some testing group several months ago.  Seemed like they were getting closer to getting the "update" out the door.  Wondering what the hold up is?

Can only assume that it is due to $$.  What isn't these days?

I would like to see Symantec extend all of our maintenance contracts by 1 year.  This would make up for some of the major screwup.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slappy's picture

Also another rant.  supposedly my database was screwed up when upgrading to 2012.

Opened a support ticket and was told that I would have to replace my database with a new one and then create all my jobs again. WTF?

I just got done fixing them after the upgrade screwed them all up.

Well for now everything is working with the exception of the reports and that will not be fixed until the database gets recreated.

Too bad there is not the ability to export/import the jobs and/or print out a easy to read printout of the job.

Apparently this was avail in the early version but not in 201. :p

Alamosa's picture

Captains Log:  Stardate 3-11-13

 

We have been off course for a year now, with no response from starfleet except a few "hopeful" beeps from command.  Now we don't even get those.  No updates, no word from home, the crew has lost all hope.  Supplies are gone, can't wait anylonger.   Last tribble eaten.

 

Guess we'll have to join the Klingons, Qapla`

 

Captain (since backup exec was born)   OUT!

CraigV's picture

...classic! Would give 10 thumbs up for this if I could...cool

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

Drew Meyer's picture

Hey team - apologies that Starfleet Communications have not been broadcast more often. We're managing a lot of intergalactic channels. Here are a few to track:

1. Connect. See the Backup Exec beta blog here and here for the latest in our upcoming platforms release.
2. Check Spiceworks, Twitter (@backupexec), Reddit and Google+ for places to interact with the Starfleet officers directly.
3. We'll watch this particular thread more closely going forward.

Regarding the comments above:
1. We're building a release to bring on platforms (vSphere 5.1, Windows Server 2012 and a bunch of other apps) first. Watch for that beta to hit before the first half of this year and track the channels above for more precise updates.
2. Bringing back the Jobs Monitor. This is in the plan but it is too soon to tell you when. We're getting in front of what we are doing before making new promises, and committed to giving you accurate information when we have it.

Starfleet out for now.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

Slappy's picture

Interesting. . .a company that has their own blog and they go to other places to communicate with their customers about a flawed upgrade . . that speaks volumes.  Not to mention that there were several employees on this thread that should have been receiving updates to this thread . . . and maybe they could have responded???

 

Nothing like an easter egg hunt to go find out information on upgrade that everybody has been complaining about for some time.

 

As a side note, I was in one of the product testing groups back in August of last year. I would have thought participating in that would have been enough to say I wanted to be kept in the loop about updated.

 

One final rip . . HOW ABOUT FIXING THE EXISTING PRODUCT ON THE PLATFORMS THAT WERE JACKED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE.  WHY THE HECK ARE YOU SPENDING TIME AND MONEY ON ROLLING OUT TO NEW PLATFORMS WHEN WE (THE CUSTOMERS) WOULD LIKE RESOLUTION TO THE PLATFORMS WE ARE RUNNING IT ON NOW.

Maybe it is just me, but I find strategy of getting this resolved to be FLAWED. 

 

Drew Meyer's picture

Slappy, we've been keeping those users that came to our offices updated in a private forum. PM me if you are one of those folks.

We are laser focused on three priorities:
1. Platform support: coming in the beta and available on both 2010 and 2012. We can't expect you to move forward with us unless we can back up your latest patforms, regardless of the GUI.

2. Quality improvements: making it easier to use and fixing defects. Our last hotfix on Feb 20 addressed 191 customer issues with over 20,000 downloads to date and no calls to support. 

3. Seamless migration. Once we've supported the right platforms, and are rolling out high quality maintenance releases, we'll revisit the GUI. You are free to continue using 2010 until we deliver a seamless migration experience. No date on this yet but will keep you posted on the channels above (as well as here in Connect).

Hope this straight story helps you know where you stand.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

Alamosa's picture

We're not FREE to continue to use 2010, you CHARGE US if we want to continue to use 2010 while you piddle around and get NOTHING to your loyal customers.

strims's picture

It's been almost 8 months since a Symantec Employee stated on this wall that "they've heard the customers and will be rolling out a fix to this problem soon"...and we get nothing.  Do they really think we'll be renewing our maintenance agreement?  Just awful.

Siegfried's picture

Please, when BE2012R2 will be out?

 

Regards.

Drew Meyer's picture

Watch the beta blog here for the latest info. Backup Exec 2010 R3 SP3 and Backup Exec 2012 SP2 are expected to go into Beta in May and GA in July.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

bmur's picture

I have to agree that the omission of multiple servers on one job is a major mistake by Symantec.
How can this happen? Are you trying to lose your customers?
Apart from this blunder I would also like to say that the new interface is very poor. While the old interface could have done with some improvement this one is far worse.
It deeply concerns me that a company I have put my faith in for so long can get a software release so wrong.
You need to back track quickly.
I would certainly sympathise with some of the angry comments here as the response from the company is far from satisfactory. There is a touch of Microsoft arrogance creeping in. I was waiting for the next release before finalising my decision on whether to move to another package but the failure of symantec to give a commitment to when these issues will be addressed may force my hand.

Alamosa's picture

I'm sorry, I must not be reading this correctly.  Symantec, are you saying you're going to support Windows 2012 and VMware 5.1 BEFORE you fix the glaring errors of last year?

 I don't care that your GUI is clumsy or bizzare looking, what I care about is Job Based backups instead of Server Based backups. 

I've WAITED and WAITED.  Owning 3 BackupExec servers.  I guess I really will have to cancel my pending renewals and check out Veeam or something. 

Dang, 20 years of loyalty GONE.  I've truely waited as long as I could. 

If this is the kind of customer service we're recieving for all the cash we've paid you, guess I better move our Endpoint products, and Ghost products before you do something similar and won't fix it either!

 

This is truely your last chance to save a 20 year corporate customer!

strims's picture

You took the words right out of my mouth Alamosa.  I did not renew maintenance agreements for two clients recently and have migrated them to AppAssure, which is magic (after the initial headache of setting it up).  I will never recommend or purchase Backup Exec again.  Like you, I've waited and waited and waited for the promised resolution to this craptastic release for almost a year, and still NOTHING.  They have no real plans to fix anything.  They're excited about their wonderful GUI and think it's a benefit more than a hindrance.  Same with jobs per server instead of servers per job.  It amazes me.  I've been using them since 1998 and POOF!  Never again.

Joseph Nicoletti's picture

Our Agency has also decided to drop Symantec and replace our backup technology.  We have been using Symantec(Veritas) since 2001. Symantec has a knack for destroying their reputation. 

BE2012 is the biggest mistake, EVER!!!!

Maxgeo's picture

When did BE 2012 R2 suddenly become a Service pack rather than a release?

I went to the Symantec symposium last year and we were told R2 "early 2013'. Now I have signed up for beta realease because basically our backups dont work, and after accepting my 3rd amended 'project schedule agreement' I am told the beta SP2 will finally be available in May 2013, yet its not an R2.

FILLS ME WITH CONFIDENCE

Alamosa's picture

No Confidence Maxgeo.  They are NOT correcting the problem with SP2, only adding platforms.  You'll have to WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT while your backups continue to fail for some mysterious 2014+ Release of a new product before you can even find out if they truely did address our problems.

 

If we complain too much in a thread, they just lock the thread and open a new one with a short promise of work.  Then never respond to valid questions.

No PM in the thread.  Interesting.  We are moving EVERY SINGLE symantec product we have away because we can't get any communications.  Every word out of their mouth is a LIE! plain and simple.

 

They laid off their entire Ghost GSS development team, then hired some PM a year later that LIED to us all and said, :"keep the faith, I'm telling you we are working on a new release"   (Sound familiar?).

 

I'll be suprised if they have the guts to leave my comments or even more so... RESPOND TO THEM WITH ANOTHER LIE!

 

Drew Meyer's picture

Here are the questions I see posed in this thread:

Maxgeo: we've called this a Service Pack because it affects both BE2010 and BE2012. Seemed less confusing than using two new R names. There's nothing significant in the choice of names though.

Alamosa: post the questions you have and I'll do my best to respond.
- I can tell you that we are building the jobs monitor into the next release but I don't have a date to share yet.
- I don't see any reason to delete your comments as they are fair and an accurate reflection of your position.
- Happy to have a PM respond if you'd prefer, but you'll get the same answers on dates. I'd rather they stayed heads down on customer research and defining the next release, but will gladly bring in the experts to field any question.
- If you are having backups fail, please let me know your case number and I can escalate your case.

Joseph Nicoletti and Strims: I'm sorry we can't do what you need and I hate to see a loyal customer go. I understand your frustration and don't blame you.

Don't forget that 2010 will remain supported until we have a seamless migration path to 2012.

That's the lay of the land as of today.

 

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

strims's picture

You understand you're asking customers to continue to pay thousands a year in maintenance fees to use a program from 2010?  How is that justifiable in your eyes?  Do you have any idea what a pain it is to go through symantecs licensing portal to downgrade license keys from 2012 to 2010 and then go through the pains of downgrading the software application?  All while paying Symantec for the priveledge?  You keep saying "we are still supporting 2010" like you're doing everyone a favor.  Just FIX THE PROBLEMS YOU CREATED and all could have been right in the world.

 

Alamosa's picture

Drew, thank you for the response, but I don't see a way to save us as a customer either.  We've waited as long as we could for a fix to the BE 2012 problems, and the Ghost problems, and the Endpoint problems.

The simple fact that Symantec has been working on this for a year now and still can't get us a fix with BE 2012 Job Monitoring, while deciding to take 15 months to release a SP that doesn't address this issue seems to be short sighted and really affects our ability to continue to pay support fees.  I'm sure that BE 2014 will be out sometime 4th quarter of 2014 and will finally address everyone's Job Monitoring issues, but I just can't wait.

My RANT really doesn't help, but I was hopeful that something would be just over the horizon.  Now it appears it's not and I'm just disappointed that I have no choice but to move on.

Thanks again for the response.

 

bmur's picture

Sorry answers are not satisfactory. I have my renewal on the desk. I am not putting it through. Can anyone recommend an good alternative to Symantec?

slappeee's picture

Current looking at ARC Serve.  Used them prior to Veritas but it has been a long time.

Funny thing was that we were thinking of changing antivirus to Symantec priror to this screwup but will now have to look elsewhere for that as well.

 

BobsBarlo's picture

We need to explain to our superiors why we are paying maintenance for software that has proved to be completely unusable. It also seems as if the question of appropriately adjusted maintenance costs for those who have been screwed by this keeps on being avoided as well.

I hate to say it but I too find myself in a position where I simply have not got the option to wait any longer. There is no clear ETA on this and we cannot be expected to hope that that day while come on the offchance that it may come in time to still be of relavence while still having to pay the maintenance fees. To that end we have decided to terminate our Symantec BE licensing at the end of the current cycle as well.

To think that at one stage this was some of the best backup software out there.

Most unfortunate.

bmur's picture

I used Arcserve long time ago as well. I assume it has moved on. I moved to Symantec for similar reasons that I am now moving away. Anyone recommend the current version of Arcsrve?

Alamosa's picture

Ok, Ok, This is just mean!  and FUNNY.  While searching for a replacement to Backup Exec, I found this URL:

 

http://www.evaluesoftware.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=237&gclid=CIjcqaO-i7YCFSSCQgodsxMABg

 

 

You'll note the following on the ad:

 

Backup Exec 2010 R3 for Windows Server Retail Version **Please note this product is downloaded direct from Symantec and comes with no support**

 

 

hahahahahahahahaha 

 

W.Lee's picture

Pre BE2010.  Despite taking to "Bob", "Jim" and 'Tom" in India, I found the support quite adequate and knowledgeable.

I'm 97% sure that we will not be renewing our maintenance.

I am also looking for alternatives for Endpoint A/V.  They really screwed that up as well.  Back when it was Pro Corp A/V the management console was awesome.  You can see what version everyone was on and when the last definitions were updated all in 1 page.  It was easy and intuitive to push out updates as well.

kfichtner's picture

W.Lee, we decided not to go with SEP anymore. We have switched to Kaspersky. To keep it to backup exec, we did renew our contract because we don't have the budget to buy something new flat out. Currently our backups are working...for now. But we are looking to anything else that is out there. Thank you everyone for keeping this issue up top, even if Symantec doesn't seem to be doing anything about it.

piero_depaoli's picture

@wlee - would love to know if you are using SEP 12.1.x...and if we can help you sort through this.

@kfichtner - sorry to see you leaving SEP.  would love to have an offline conversation with you to understand your concerns so we can get better.

stc74's picture

I still remember the first time I saw symantec's logo replace the veritas icon, I knew it was just a matter of time before it went to crap. I did downgrade to 2010 and everything is good for now, going to ride it as long as I can then go to an alternative. At that point we will be completly symantec free.

Whatweretheythinking's picture

I had to down grade as well.  We just want the same familiar product...why change so much when it has been a great product for so many years?  I am definitely moving on to another product soon.  There is no way anyone could work with this jacked up platform you created.  Go back to what worked or you will lose all your customers for sure!!!

 

Electric_eel's picture

I absolutely cannot use this software. A separate job for each server is ludicrous.  I am so angry right now.  I just spent so much money on a license for this and it is very hard to get approval for anything around here. 

 

My primary backup server has BE 2010 R3 on it and it will not be upgraded at all.  In fact I am working on a complete overhaul of our backup/disaster recovery plan. It now does not include backup exec.

buck614's picture

I see a lot of responses from Symantec Employees but for the life of me I haven't seen one actually address the topic of this post. What is the status of being able to run a single job that has more than one server selection?

Drew Meyer's picture

buck614, we've prioritized platform support on 2010 and 2012 ahead of bringing back this feature. Our thought is that there's no point in multiple jobs if you can't back up the environment in the first place. 

That means:
- Beta for the two service packs that bring Windows Server 2012 and vSphere 5.1 support is starting now with GA expected in early July.
- Seamless migration (or fixing the multi-server job monitor and other things) are in the following release. We'll get you a date when we get closer, but I'm fairly confident that you should not plan on anything earlier than the end of this year. That beta should open up this fall.

The official downgrade TechNote tells how to go back to BE2010 if you need to.

We're also working on a way to address maintenance renewals and expirations until we can get seamless migration in place. Stay tuned.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

buck614's picture

It sounds like you are saying there are other priorities that are deemed to be more important.

When you say "Seamless migration (or fixing the multi-server job monitor and other things)" are you referring to the job monitor GUI or are you actually saying that I will be able to run a job that contains more than one server selection? 

Obviously we would like a better Job monitor but our concern primarily is the ability to back up more than one server in one single job.

It just seems so odd that we can't get a straight answer on this. I'll give you a chance to elaborate on where this is really going.

I'm really hoping you are wrong about that time table and we don't have to wait until 2014 when we have already been waiting for so long. 

I can only imagine the tremendous number of people like me who had to revert back to 2010 and are just waiting for this to be addressed.

Thanks for your response.

Drew Meyer's picture

buck614-

Yes, we always have to prioritize or nothing gets delivered.

"Seamless Migration" is our catch-all phrase for the list of features that we will put back/modify/improve so that anyone moving from 2010 to 2012 is not suprised. Jobs will move over, the jobs monitor will stay the same, multi-server jobs will move over and remain available. We're thinking about offering a "design check" pre-beta so folks can get a feel for this and be sure we are on the right track - PM me if you'd like to be involved. This is a big deal to us (and this thread just reinforces it).

I hope to be wrong about the timetable, BUT we are not going to make another commitment until we are sure we can deliver. It's not fun on this side of the fence either, but it remains our intention to be straight with you about what is and is not so you can make the plans to run your business.

Feel free to keep asking for information.

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

buck614's picture

Well that sounds good then. However, I'm sure you realize that most if not all are not upgrading until these changes are put in place. I don't think we mind new changes but it is all the old functionality that was lost ... thats the issue.

There are many areas where 2012 tries to guess what options you want and then doesn't let you alter them. An example would be exchange logs. In 2012 it will always flush the exchange logs, you can't select to just copy them anymore. It is trying to anticipate the settings you need rather than just allowing you as the user to have access to them all and set them yourself. 

I would like to be involved in the beta. I'll PM you.

Thanks.

Biker_Dude's picture

I believe you can still copy the Exchange logs in BE2012 via the "one-time backup' method.  However, you canot set a reoccurring schedule, which is something that was in BE2010 and it not in BE2012.

Right...?

 

buck614's picture

In 2010 I run a daily backup of my Exchange server. I also run a backup once a month that backs up all of my virtual machines (Exchange being one of those servers). That once monthly backup is set to copy the exchange logs. The daily backlup is set to flush the logs. This is very important because you need to ensure that you know where those logs are if you need them.

In 2012 in many areas it uses an "it knows best" philosophy and just arbitrarily makes decisions about options to be set and doen't allow for you to change them. For instance it will always commit the logs. The option is there but you can't change it. That is unacceptable when I am doing many different kinds of backups. Some are daily primary backups and some are offsite backups. The offsite backups should not have logs.

That seems to be a bit of a theme in many areas where the system tries to interpret your needs. 

 

JC777's picture

Drew,

I like what you wrote.  "Seamless Migration", "anyone moving from 2010 to 2012 is not surprised", "jobs will move over, the jobs monitor will stay the same, multi-server jobs will move over and remain available".  Is this the philosophy moving forward or was this in place when 2012 was designed?

I agree. No more excuses and broken promises about releases/dates.  How about getting us information about the 2012 R2 and next product.  Showing users what they can expect, (features, functions, tools).  Put together a webcast showing users some of the capabilities of a working product so we know what's coming.  Soliciting feedback regarding the webcast.

Every business depends on data, so data loss is never an option.  It may not be fun on your side of the fence but you won't get fired if your critical business data is not backed up properly.    Stop thinking about a design check and make it happen.

Drew Meyer's picture

Are you kidding? We totally failed to deliver seamless migration in BE2012, which is why it is now the focus.

Watch the beta blog and the main BE blog for detailed list of the fixes and new features in the Service Packs. Once we have firmer date ranges for the next release we will also communicate them.

Absolutely agree that data loss is unacceptable. As soon as we have a design check date we'll post it for all to participate, and what you described above ius exactly what we have in mind. Wouldn't it be nice to have a chance to give feedback prior to release, for a change? 

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

Robert Blanchette's picture

Just look at Mr. Meyer's title and you will understand why you can't get a straight answer. My opinion is that they keep promising a solution is just around the corner so they can keep people paying for their subscription renewals.

This whole situation is ridiculous. This thread started in June of 2012 and we are still waiting for a fix. I participated in the demo for the proposed fix. This fix was supposed to be available by October 2012. We are still waiting. Why? There has to be a reason. Is it incompetence? Is it a lack of concern for your customers? Is it simply a decision driven by marketing? I would like to know. What other major software company has waited to fix a broken product for almost a year? Do you not realize how pathetic and amateurish it sounds for you to recommend that users downgrade to the previous version to regain their functionality? (An option unavailable to me anyway because I need to back up SQL 2012.)

I for one am fed up with excuses and false promises. Symantec just doesn't seem to care about their BE customers. Like many users here, I have been Using BE since version 7.2. I used it because it was the best. I can't say that anymore.

Veeam is offering backup to tape in their next version, which is due this July. I will be taking a serious look at it.

 

 

 

JC777's picture

I know of another software company that is doing the exact same thing.  They do not release bug fixes and tell their customers that the bug will be fixed in the next major release.  I agree that their motivation is financially based.  If they can't get you to pay for maintenance then they are not making the money needed to keep their developers employeed.  

Our problem is that this was not a bug so we as customers are at the mercy of product managers.  I would like to know whose bright idea it was to remove that feature from the software in the first place.  I would suggest having that individual removed from the software because it seems as though their logic is flawed.

As a customer, I would expect that a software company would have users (and not marketing/developers) make recommendations on changes to a software application. But I guess Symantec is above market research.  Microsoft did market research collecting information on how its users used Office features and functions changing the software based on that information.  What happened to user requirements driving a product line?  What happened to a company doing beta testing and getting feedback from users who have a stake in the future development of a product?  The decision to change the software gives me the impression that Symantec doesn't really need its customers.

I understand not fixing that component in the current version if you are close to releasing a new version that has the capability.  Customers have been patient, loyal and waited for this error in judgement to be resolved.  How much longer to do we have to wait.  This decision was the main reason that I sold my Symantec stock.  How much bad press and customer ailenation can Symantec endure?

Drew Meyer's picture

Robert Blanchette and JC777-

1. We are being as transparent as we know how. Ask me anything, or visit one of our Reddit AMAs, Google+ Hangouts or Spiceworks Livestreams if you want to speak with someone else. And for support, hit up Twitter with hashtag #BEsupport.

3. Yes, this is a colossal mess and I too wish it were faster, but quality is not free. We are now focused on bridging the gap between a release that supports modern backup with legacy features (BE2010) and  maintaining the most recent platform that has new features but loses old (BE2012). Check our beta for proof that we are progressing. Our product managers would love to speak with you directly; PM me for an introduction or tweet @butlercp

3. The people responsible have all been replaced. In fact, the new CEO has acknowledged the focus on this product line and our intention to keep listening to employees, customers and shareholders until we get it right. The stock price seems to reflect this plan is on track and welcome.

 

Director of Marketing, NetBackup
@DrewMeyerSYMC

 

slappeee's picture

Glad to see somebody from Symantec is finally keeping up with this thread... 

I'm not following twitter or facebook pages for Symantec but I would be interested in knowing if you are getting the same wonderful comments as in this thread.

Hey Drew you mentioned in your previous post:

We're also working on a way to address maintenance renewals and expirations until we can get seamless migration in place. Stay tuned.

 

How long do I need to stay tuned for this??

My renewal is up at the end of this month and I have already stated in a previouse post that it would be in Symantecs best interest to extend the renewal periods for users that are experiencing the 2012 debacle.

I have expressed this same sentiment to our Symantec account rep and all I got was a: "sorry to hear that" attitude.  Told her to fly it up the flag pole and a week has gone by and no call from any manager.

Again this is typical customer NON service from Symantec.