Ghost Solution Suite

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  • 1.  Ghost Multicast problem

    Posted Mar 05, 2012 04:43 AM

    Hello,

    I've been having a few problems with Ghost version 11.5.1.2266 and i'm hoping you guys can help me out.
    I'm trying to get an auto multicast session going on.
    I've been using the following command in the PE image:
    ghost.exe -clone,MODE=restore,src=@mcSESSIONNAME,dst=1 -sure -rb
    Now ghost (at the client side) boots up just fine and connects to the server, but as soon as i click send, the whole thing freezes.
    The Server states that the session is in progress, while the client side states that it's waiting for the ghostcast session to start.
    I have tried forcing the Multicast but that doesn't work, for some odd reason i can't force Broadcast it either, but Unicast works just fine.
    If i manually enter the parameters (Session name, drives and such) then multicast works without a problem.
    Also, this problem occurs only when i try to restore 2 or more pc's, if i do 1 with the auto setup, it works like charm.

    As for the record
    I'm using Windows server 2008 R2 with the proper WAIK and Ghost works together with WDS.

    If any other information is needed just say so.



  • 2.  RE: Ghost Multicast problem

    Posted Mar 05, 2012 12:07 PM

    Have a search on this forum for past postings by Nigel Bree on the subject of IGMP snooping and the details of how this is required for Ghost multicasting to work.



  • 3.  RE: Ghost Multicast problem

    Posted Mar 05, 2012 01:08 PM

    How is IGMP required?
    From what i understand about it, is that it's connected to vlan
    But we have don't have that running, we just operate with a single netgear switch



  • 4.  RE: Ghost Multicast problem

    Posted Mar 05, 2012 02:42 PM

     

    Ghost Solution Suite 2.5 freezing during multicast

    To clarify how this works

    Cisco's documentation is excellent about explaining the concepts of IP multicast: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk828/technologies_tech_note09186a0080094821.shtml

    Although you absolutely should read the above, the executive summary is this:

    - You absolutely should have "IGMP snooping" enabled on all the managed switches in your network which can support it, because without this the switches emulate the behaviour of classic IEEE 802 Ethernet in respect to multicast frames, which is to broadcast them. You DO NOT want this if you have applications which use IP multicast heavily. Enabling switch-level IGMP support brings the efficiency benefits of IP multicast down to the level of switch ports, and in particular allows the switches to avoid distributing multicast frames to switch ports which are in low-power states, where it is common for the port to be autonegotiated to a 10mbps speed.

    - "IGMP snooping" is a switch concept which is not a part of the IGMP protocol or the IETF IP network architecture; IGMP snooping in switches instead piggybacks on the IGMP protocol, which is a protocol conceptually provided by routers in the IETF architecture - when this snooping is enabled, switches (which are really point-to-point routers that are emulating a broadcast bus) then use that routing information to determine how to route frames to their individual switch ports.

    - The part of the IGMP protocol provided by routers is called IGMP querying: in order to work correctly, IGMP snooping requires at least one active IGMP querier to be servicing the network segments covered by the switches. This can be provided by a router, and the majority of modern managed switches can also provide this capability.

    - Although the IGMP protocol specification details techniques by which multiple queriers vote amongst themselves (by IP address) to ensure only one query source at a time is active, some switches have appeared to not honour this part of the IGMP specification properly. See for instance https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/forums/ghost-115-flooding-our-network and so some care may need to be taken in selecting which device(s) have IGMP query generation enabled.

    - Sometimes, dedicated routers or devices such as managed switches with routing functions do not have a particular configuration setting for generation of IGMP queries. On such devices, IGMP query generation is implicit, and enabled by the configuration of inter-router protocols such as PIM. So, depending on your vendor it may or may not be necessary to configure PIM support on some device(s) to ensure IGMP query generation. Enabling PIM may have some consequences beyond the local switched network, however, so if you are considering this it's generally a good idea to read your vendor's documentation thoroughly.

    Note there is nothing Ghost-specific about any of this; IP Multicast is a standard part of the IETF network architecture and has been since about 1989, while the "IGMP snooping" extensions to switches (which piggyback on the IETF standard IGMP protocol) have been defined by switch vendors and all have basically worked the same way since the mid-to-late 1990's. It simply happens that since Ghost's protocol code was written to the IETF multicast architecture but before IGMP snooping became a widely deployed technique, it's not designed to cope with the hard-to-detect failure modes resulting from incorrect network configuration due to not installing an IGMP querier. Unfortunately, since Ghost is also one of very few applications (other than telephony) which makes extensive use of IP multicast and offers significant network load, it's generally the only thing on many corporate networks which is sensitive to the network's multicast configuration.

    When a switch is configured to use IGMP snooping but no IGMP querier is present, the most common presentation is that a networks on which IP multicast appears to be working perfectly for a short time suddenly stops working altogether as the switches time out and unilaterally block delivery of multicast traffic to their ports. Because the switches do this without issuing any advice or control traffic to anyone and because the TCP/IP stacks in operating systems do not provide features for applications to detect whether an active IGMP querier is present, detecting this failure mode automatically is hard (and when it happens, there is very little that applications can do about it).

     

    IGMP Snooping

    Ghost uses IPv4 standard multicast; a great many switches are not configured correctly for this extremely simple part of standard TCP/IP networking, but every switch vendor has documents explaining this and how to configure it, and I've written many dozens of posts here on these forums on the topic of configuring switches for this.

    Basically, the problem is a switch feature called IGMP Snooping - IGMP is a standard protocol used to communicate with routers that Ghost uses in a perfectly standard way. Since modern switches are only *emulating* classic Ethernet, they really behave more like routers, and IGMP Snooping is a technique the routers employ to piggyback on the actions of real routers to efficiently deliver multicast traffic to only the switch ports that subscribe to it.

    However, to use it you must also have the network enabled with the proper router support - in particular, having a router or similar device generating standard IGMP query traffic; without this, the router is aware of machines initially subscribing to multicast groups but then times out those associations after a few minutes, which leads to precisely the symptoms you describe.

    Exactly how to correctly configure this depends slightly on what network equipment you have, but all the switch and router vendors have extensive documentation on how to do this properly. It's a simple process which may just be a matter of changing one configuration either in your routers or switches.



  • 5.  RE: Ghost Multicast problem

    Posted Mar 09, 2012 05:01 AM

    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the response though i beleave there is a misunderstanding somewhere.
    I'll try to explain the entire situation again.

    I've got a server running dhcp, wds and ghost
    And to keep testing i got 2 pc's to function as ghost clients.
    As for the network part, i have a netgear GS724T managed switch
    The ghosting and any other network activity is contained to only that switch.
    In the boot image that i use i have set the following parameters in the startnet file:
    ghost.exe -clone,MODE=restore,src=@mcSESSIONNAME,dst=1 -sure -rb
    With this, Ghost boots up nicely and connects to the session as it should.
    Now here come the problems.
    If the ghostcase (server side) is set to auto, broadcast or multicast, the clients freeze with the message "waiting for ghostcast server to start"
    If i force the server to send in unicast however it works, the clients get their image.

    Now, if i manually enter the session name and such in ghost (at the client side) and keep the server on auto (or even force multicast for that matter), then it works
    The session actually sends the entire thing in multicast without a problem then.

    Having said all that, i still don't think setting IGMP is gonna make a difference, because clearly, multicast works.
    I'm thinking that there might be a problem with the preset parameters i setted in the startnet file.
    That i should add something else, or maybe even leave out something.

    Just to make it clear, i'm using Ghost version 11.5.1.2266 with Server 2008 R2