Ghost Solution Suite

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  • 1.  Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 07, 2011 09:36 AM

    Hi,

    I am currently using ghost32 to deploy images via LAN. The time taken to complete the restore seems somewhat slow (about 50% of HDD write speed). Looking at the physical bottlenecks of the equipment a speed of around 65Mb/s should be the maximum. However I am only seeing around 33Mb/s. This is when only 1 unit is being written to.

    Is this lossage due to the ghost deployment process on the client? currently I am using -clone, mode=restore switches.

    Are there any others that can help with write speeds?

    Also does the initial information received get written to RAM or HDD? If it is the HDD can it be switched to RAM? Some images are 20Gb+ so would be too large to store fully in RAM.

    Any help/pointers would be appreciated.

     

    Kind regards,

    Mark



  • 2.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 07, 2011 10:55 AM

    What version of Ghost?

    What boot environment?

    What LAN speed?

    What disk technology?

    Disk image or partition image?

    How are you calculating 65 Mb /min ?

    Received data is always written to RAM first, as it has to be converted from packet format to sector format in order to be written to a hard disk.



  • 3.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 08, 2011 04:12 AM

    What version of Ghost? V11.5.1

    What boot environment? Pxe boot / Win PE (Win 7 based)

    What LAN speed? Gigabit

    What disk technology? Conventional HDD 2.5" various capacities.

    Disk image or partition image? Disk image

    How are you calculating 65 Mb /min ? 65Mb/s is manufacturer quoted max sequential write speed

    Received data is always written to RAM first, as it has to be converted from packet format to sector format in order to be written to a hard disk.

    Understood. Does this mean Hdd activity is relatively sequential?

     

    Thanks for your help

    Mark



  • 4.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 08, 2011 11:52 AM

    I doubt that the 65 Mb/s maximum sequential write speed can be maintained on a continuous basis due to head latency and rotational latency. Modern hard disks most likely use variable sector counts per cylinder to maximise storage, but even assuming 100 sectors per track on the outer edge, that is 50K of data. If you have three platters (probably the most you can get in a 2.5 inch drive), that means 300K of data before you need to move the heads.  Depending on the drive, you may find it takes 2-3 ms to move to an adjacent cylinder and then a short wait for the disk to rotate to the correct position for the next write operation.

    I don't know exactly how Ghost handles restores - whether it is relatively sequential or whether it restores on a file by file basis including any fragmentation that existed at the time of imaging.  If ghost does not implicitly perform a defrag during an image create and restore operation, then the restore efficiency may not be optimal.

    The figure you are measuring, which is roughly half the theoretical maximum, is roughly what I would expect from a laptop hard disk.



  • 5.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 09, 2011 11:49 AM

    oh manufacturer quoted maxes, how i wish i could attain them for a long time.  I never seem to have that luck

    When you say PXE boot / Win 7 based, are you PXE booting to lay down the ghost boot partition so you can do it through a console task?  Or are you opening a ghostcast session from the Win7 PE?  The only reason I ask is the Ghost PE needs Vista drivers, and the Win7PE would obviously need Win7 drivers.  I was thinking maybe a network card driver issue?



  • 6.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 09, 2011 02:53 PM

    As far as I am aware, the current GSS release is not compatible with the Win 7 version of WinPE (V3).

    You need to stick with the V2 version of WinPE that ships with GSS 2.5.1.2266, and that version requires Vista 32 bit drivers.



  • 7.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 09, 2011 11:44 PM

    I don't know exactly how Ghost handles restores - whether it is relatively sequential or whether it restores on a file by file basis including any fragmentation that existed at the time of imaging

    Ghost images of NTFS volumes are produced and restored MFT-entry by MFT-entry; on capturing, this means that fragmentation of the source volume impacts the capture performance, a fact that used to be exploited in the benchmarks used by PowerQuest's tools, which work purely at a sector level and do no defragmentation.

    The PowerQuest tools would capture (and restore) the image in a single pass over the disk, and so their published benchmarks were taken by carefully synthesizing a volume with maximum fragmentation levels. Because Ghost did work (mostly at image capture time) to gather file data, by doing this PowerQuest could publish benchmarks showing their tool 'was faster' even though in practice it normally wasn't, and the result was not what you wanted for a deployment tool - in the only cases where the PQ tools were faster, the restored volume was just as cripplingly defragmented as the source. So, PowerQuest's toolchain was preferable for backup purposes (where it's ended up in BESR) where captures dominate restores, whereas Ghost was built for and better for deployment (where restores dominate over captures).

    Note, by the way, that there are lots of "levels" of NTFS fragmentation; the simplest is fragmented data runs, but there are even more extreme kinds of fragmentation where the $DATA attributes get fragmented across MFT entries. Because the first versions of Ghost that worked with NTFS didn't understand the NTFS structure all that well, it did limit the amount of defragmentation done on the restored volume, and because it worked purely MFT-entry by MFT-entry, it didn't (and still doesn't) try and unwind $DATA attribute fragmentation, but it's gone to various levels of effort to at least put data runs close together.

    One particular reason fragmentation mattered to Ghost is the specifics of the mapping pairs used in the representation of non-resident MFT attributes - see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb470039(v=vs.85).aspx for the details of the delta encoding it uses for data runs. In the earlier versions of Ghost, when it had to lay out data differently due to differences in volume size, this encoding meant the size of the non-resident $DATA attributes changed, and in the worst case could overflow their containing MFT entry (there's an old error message not present in newer versions of Ghost about "attribute translation" which was due to this).

    While Ghost still doesn't go the whole way in terms of coalescing the data runs in the $DATA MFT attributes (that would have been preferable, but one of those things limited by underfunding), it now goes to some effort try to place the data runs adjacent to each other, not just for better I/O performance during restore but also because this tends to produce the most compact delta encoding. That's one reason the newer 2.x versions of Ghost could restore some heavily-fragmented volumes that Ghost 8.x and earlier would choke on.

    As far as I am aware, the current GSS release is not compatible with the Win 7 version of WinPE (V3).

    Actually, it's perfectly compatible with Win7 PE, and indeed just about any version of Ghost ever is - after all, the only thing Vista did to really break compatibility was UAC, and UAC doesn't affect WinPE at all as you're implicitly logged in as LocalSystem.

    Putting Win7 into the management environment isn't that hard either, it's something we simply hadn't committed to and done already in the GSS 3.0 environment becuase Win7 PE still really didn't exist at the point when Symantec shut down development, and so we were getting the GSS 3.0 Beta out before putting someone onto that closer to Win7 release before deciding what we'd do. Most likely, we wouldn't have included it because we wouldn't have had enough time to test it before making it the default PreOS, and in particular it wasn't clear whether it's work any better than Vista in small-memory (i.e., 256mb) machines where we had to really strip down Vista to get it to boot.



  • 8.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 11:25 AM

    that is my experience too.  Now, I have a Win 7 PE boot CD i use to install the GHO file that talks to the console.  That file launches the VISTA PE for the client to talk to the Ghost Console.  That is why I bring up the 2 PE enviroments.  But, the console only cares about the VISTA one, the Win 7 one is the tool I use to install the console client



  • 9.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 11:29 AM

    are you saying Symantec shut down development of GSS3.0, or just the use of PE3 in GSS3.0?



  • 10.  RE: Help with ghost32 switches for LAN deployment

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 02:38 PM

    They shut down development of GSS 3.0