How to keep just last version of a file
We received a request from management to determine if there is a way to save the last backed-up version of a file for a longer retention period.
For instance, we run a monthly full and daily incrementals. The fulls get sent offsite for infinity, and the incrementals are only kept for 30 days.
If a user creates and deletes a file in between the fulls, we do not have a backup of that file. This happens quite frequently with users' files that we need to recover more than 30 days later.
I have looked at Synthetic Backups, but they are a point-in-time, too, just like the regular full backups.
Short of changing our retention period for the incrementals to be infinity, is there any way to store just the LAST backed up version of the file for infinity?
Comments
Hi, If you save/keep only
Hi,
If you save/keep only the last version of a file how will you protect it again logical corruption i.e. user errors etc? If you only have the 1 copy, and it contains the corruption, you're dead in the water.
Do you agree?
R
Regards,
Riaan Badenhorst
ITs easy ;)
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Miss understanding
I think you are missing his point.
You do a full backup keep for 1 year
user makes a file
you do an incremental keep 1 week (file is on this backup)
user removes file
you do a full for 1 year -( file is not here)
He is asking how can he make sure that he keeps at least one copy of every file he backs up.
the only way I can think of is Synthetic fulls (I think this requires a backup to disk)
you do a full
do an incremental
do an incremental
do an incremental
do a Synthetic full (which takes files from last full and all incrementals to give you a new full)
------
Now I have never done Synthetics so do some reading and maybe get input from someone who has.
I don't have to know how to spell....I work on Unix.
NetBackup 7.0.1 - AIX & Windows
Not quite what I was asking
The request isn't to protect it against corruption, but to be able to recover the last version of a file for more than our current 30 days, without just sending every tape offsite for infinity.
It is not uncommon for a user to have created a file and deleted it between the time of two consecutive fulls. We *did* back up the file during our incrementals, but we only keep those for 30 days. Some folks here believe we should be able to recover at least the last version of that file.
I don't believe we want to keep the incrementals forever, along with the fulls. I guess another option would be to keep incrementals for a longer time period, maybe a couple of years.
Hi J, I'm not
Hi J,
I'm not misunderstanding, I understand what he saying, but it seems more like file versioning than backup. He states synthetics are point in time, but actually all backups are point in time. That statement i admin i dont understand.
The suggestion of synthetics dont really apply, because if you require a copy of the file (the last saved copy), then you'll need to create a synthetic full everyday after you create a synthetic incremental. Otherwise the synthetic inrcementals from Monday to Thursay would just by combined into a full on friday. So you then dont have copies of the files from mon-thu.
Basically what he wants then is a full everyday, or a full once, with incrementals forever (same as TSM does).
What do you think?
Regards,
Riaan Badenhorst
ITs easy ;)
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TSM
Yes, TSM's "incrementals forever" was actually what someone quoted when they proposed this.
I've seen options like that
I've seen options like that in some of the other backup products, maybe PureDisk or Avamar, but I think the short answer is: There's no way to do that in NetBackup. All retention options are at the image level, not the file level.
I still disagree
From what I have read about synthetics it would work.
you create a schedule for a full
you backup everything
user creates file
you create a schedule for an incremental (not synthetic) - file is on this backup
user deletes file
you create a synthetic full - get is the last full, plus that incremental that has the file in it.
you now have a full that contains at least one copy of the file. (True the user may have changed it before they deleted it, but that is true of all backups) But if the file existed for at least one day he has a backup of that file on a full backup.
The issue I see is that it works best to disk.
And that you now have a synthetic full, you have to have that full pulse all the next weeks incremental to make the next synthetic full.
Ron, look at the System Administrators guild for details and illustrations on synthetic backups.
I don't have to know how to spell....I work on Unix.
NetBackup 7.0.1 - AIX & Windows
But synthetics require TIR,
But synthetics require TIR, don't they? Which means that files deleted from the filesystem of the client won't be included in the full image... That full image would still be a snapshot of that server in time, not a collection of all files that have ever existed on it at any point in time...
Yes and NO
Yes TIR has to be on for the synthetic backup.
But when you do a restore, don't you have the option of doing a TIR restore ( only the dir as it last looked) or doing a regular restore (all the files I select)
If the file was backed up at least once in an incremental, would not the synthetic full still get it ( as it includes all the files from the full and incrementals - it does not pick and choose which files to put on the full it just keeps track of them in the TIR info)
So then when you go to do a restore from the synthetic full, you would have the option of TIR restore or normal restore.
( I really wish I could test this but I have no disk storage units. But I have been reading up on this as an option to an issue I have.)
Well that is how I read the book. I guess testing, or more input from someone who has done synthetic backups and restores.
I don't have to know how to spell....I work on Unix.
NetBackup 7.0.1 - AIX & Windows
Seth's right
A synthetic full won't contain any deleted files. TIR takes care of that.
I tend to agree that there isn't a "NetBackup" solution for what your management is looking for.
Maybe your management could tell all their users to not delete anything for at least 30 days after it gets created? If they want the impossible, might as well double up. ;-)
I think Seth & Chris are right
Syntehtic Fulls require TIR with move detection. That's why even the Synthetics are a "point in time" backup: they build a new image based on the last full plus all the incrementals, up to the date of the last incremental. If a file was deleted before the last incremental, that file will not be on the Synthetic because it was not on the last incremental.
Unless I'm misreading the way True Image Restore and Move Detection work...
Hi, I'm still not clear on
Hi,
I'm still not clear on what your requirement is then? Is it what i described with Full everyday, or Full and incremental forever?
And what are your concerns with a point in time copy. All backups are point in time, it all comes down to the RPO that you require. A shorter/smaller RPO is going to require a higher frequency of backup which will lead to higher storage costs (in terms of media).
R
Regards,
Riaan Badenhorst
ITs easy ;)
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Dear RonCaplinger We
Dear RonCaplinger
We normally use the Netbackup for Server's backup and if you are using it to take the backup of normal users, i think you will be going for too costly solution.
Second i think you should go for the Veritas DLO option. It is a very small and easy to understand for you. I think It offers to keeps the version of old files.
Any comment will be appreciated. Mark as Solution if your query is resolved
__________________
Thanks in Advance
Zahid Haseeb
zahidhaseeb.wordpress.com
Server backups only
Zahid,
We are only backing up our servers, not our users' desktops, so DLO is not what we want here.
Our users store their important job-related files and their team's files and documentation on a network drive on our file servers. We just want to back up the file servers, but they also want to keep just the LAST backed up version for anywhere from 2 years (my recommendation) to infinity (at least one coworker's expectation).
We have about 4TB of data, and millions of files, that we have to back up. It's a chore to back this up for both fulls and incrementals, and impossible to do it in our backup window, without some changes to the file servers themselves. So we are trying to come up with a way to allow a long-term retention of just the last version and want to make this change at the time the servers are being rebuilt/reconfigured. This would allow us to make recommendations on how to retain the data as request, within whatever constraints a new backup solution might require.
We have looked at Continuous Data Protection (CDP) offerings from other vendors, but they don't seem to keep data long enough (6 months seems to be the max) and would require an additional backup of the server, in addition to the normal NetBackup process. This would mean we would need to back up the same data from the same servers across the same network connections twice, once with each backup product. We are hoping to find a way to back up this data only once and still have long-term retention of the last version of the data.
NRT?
Since you mentioned CDP, am I right to assume you've already looked at NetBackup RealTime and rejected it?
NetBackup RealTime (tm) 7 Compatibility List (Updated February 10 2010)
http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH125338
RealTime 7.1 should be out with NetBackup 7.1. Unfortunately I know very little about this product, but your sales contact could probably hook you up.
Wow
So the TIR info picks which files to put in the full backup from in the incremental.
In reading the book I thought it took all the info from the incremental and put the on a tape. And as you can not do synthetics without the TIR there is no way to get a long term backup of a file that was only there for 1 day without keeping the daily tapes forever.
That messes up my plans as well.
Thanks CRZ for correcting me on my interruptataion of the manual.
I don't have to know how to spell....I work on Unix.
NetBackup 7.0.1 - AIX & Windows
I think your need is to
I think your need is to increase the amount of incremental backups so your request can be fulfill.
(Make the Full backup to infinity in retention)
But your need is you may also send a copy to offSite and i think you don't want to send plenty of incremental backups to send offSite with a full. So for sending the backup to offsite you take a cumulative backup and send it(Last Cumulative) to offSite with a full
Any comment will be appreciated. Mark as Solution if your query is resolved
__________________
Thanks in Advance
Zahid Haseeb
zahidhaseeb.wordpress.com
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