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question about AV architecture

  • 1.  question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 09:04 AM
    hi,

    I read that GUP support up to 1000 clients. what do you think about these possibilities architecture with 20.000 clients for exemple.

    1)
    1 SEPM, 20 branch (1000 clients in each branch), one client as GUP in each branch.

    2)
    1 SEPM, 1 branch with 20.000 clients, and 20 clients as GUP.

    3)
    1 SEPM, one or more relays (using LUA), clients in one branch

    if you have other suggestions let me know,

    thanks


  • 2.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 09:21 AM
    Hi,

             The GUP role can be assigned to any SEP client. When assigned the GUP role, a SEP client will act as a caching HTTP proxy - storing both delta and full revisions of SEP content. Other SEP clients can be configured to utilize the GUP for definition and content updates via LiveUpdate policy from the Symantec Endpoint Protection Manager (SEPM).

    There are several considerations that need to be made before utilizing GUPs are part of the overall content updating scheme in an environment:
    SEPM/SEP version considerations
    Network considerations
    The total number of clients
    The total physical hard disk space available on the GUP
    Other hardware limitations of the GUP
    Determining Worst Case Scenarios for bandwidth and storage usage

    SEPM/SEP version considerations:
    There have been significant changes to both the GUP architecture and the content delta process over the development cycle of the SEP product. In order to take advantages of these changes, both the SEPM and the SEP clients will need to be running SEP 11.0 MR3 or newer. Because of these changes, it is highly recommended that both the SEPM and SEP clients are running the latest available version of SEPM/SEP.

    Network considerations:
    GUPs can be used to supplement or replace a SEPM for distributing content updates to SEP clients, but cannot be used to update policies or manage clients. This means that clients will still need network connectivity to a SEPM in order to perform the heartbeat process, which updates their policies, and informs them when new content is available to download from the GUP.

    If the SEP clients you wish to update via a GUP are not able to connect to the SEPM of the HTTP port being used by the SEPM for client management, you will need to consider another method of updating clients. Depending on the version of SEPM used in your environment, the default client management port is either 80, or 8014 - This port is configurable within the product. The only method to update both content and policies on a client is through a SEPM.

    Since the GUP is essentially a SEP client with the additional GUP role, it must also be able to access the SEPM via the client management port. In addition to this, the clients being served by the GUP must be able to connect to the HTTP port the GUP is listening on (2967 by default). It is recommended that a GUP be on the same network segment as all clients configured to update from the GUP.

    The GUP will download definitions on-demand for itself and any clients configured to update through it. The GUP will cache all downloaded content according to the settings in its LiveUpdate policy. Clients that have been configured to use a GUP will download definitions directly from the GUP instead of SEPM. By this method, bandwidth is conserved. There must be sufficient bandwidth between the GUP and the SEPM to allow the GUP to download the full and delta definition packages being requested by SEP clients. The larger the spread of definition revisions used by the clients, the larger the bandwidth utilization between the SEPM and the GUP.

    Though bandwidth usage can be significantly reduced by using GUPs strategically, it is still important to ensure that GUPs are positioned in the network to maximize their effectiveness. GUPs should only be configured to provide updates to for clients on their local network segment. The GUP must have sufficient bandwidth to deliver content packages of up to 45 MB to the clients it serves up to 3 times a day.

    Total number of clients:
    The current iteration of the GUP role can be configured to support up to 10,000 clients. Previous to SEP MR3, the GUP was only capable of supporting up to 100 clients or 1,000 clients with SEP MR4. To ensure that the GUP is capable of updating a large number of clients, you may need to configure the GUP to handle more than the default

    Total physical hard disk space available on the GUP:
    By default the GUP will automatically purge content from its cache under two conditions:
    If the content on the GUP grows larger than the configured Maximum disk cache size for content updates setting. The GUP will purge the oldest content by last accessed time until there is room for any new content.
    If any individual content is older than the Delete content updates if unused setting, the GUP will remove that content

    Other hardware/software limitations of the GUP:
    Symantec has tested the GUP role on a variety of hardware and OS configurations and has found that the GUP role adds minimally to the CPU, memory and IO load on test systems. The load generated by the  GUP role will increase based on the number of clients configured to update from the GUP, the amount of large delta or full content updates clients request, and the frequency at which definitions are updated in the environment.

    Some basic guidelines for GUP hardware/software considerations are as follows:
    Ensure that the machine being used to serve as the GUP has sufficient reserves of CPU/memory capacity to allow for its normal operations to continue while serving content to clients
    By default, Windows is configured to allow a maximum of 5000 TCP connections simultaneously. With this configuration, the GUP is capable of serving 40 client connections per second.
    Windows can be configured to allow a maximum of 65534 TCP connections simultaneously. With this configuration, the GUP is capable of serving approximately 180 client connections per second.


    In this case I feel the first option would suit you.


  • 3.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 09:28 AM

    1. Install one SEPM with MSSQL installed in the Same box.

    2. Configure the SEPM server to LUA for updates.

    What is the Bandwidth between the branch site & SEPM Site.

    3. Use multiple GUP in each branch.(If you are going with SEP RU5)

    Install another SEPM for failover if req.


    Regards...
    Ramji Iyyer 


  • 4.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 09:38 AM
    @Ramji: If I have for example un branch with 100 clients, and I configure 10 of theim as GUP, how can I see that the update is distributed equitably between the 10 GUP?


  • 5.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 09:42 AM
    for the brandwidth, I have 512Kbps between one site and the SEPM, and 80Mbps between the second site and SEPM.


  • 6.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 10:30 AM
     I would recommend atleast 2 SEPMs coz 20,000 clients connecting to one sepm ( for policy updates) would mean a lot.
    GUPs should be servers as Clients OS will have 10 concurrent connection limitation ( from microsoft)
    1000 clients on one GUP would be exteme as it is the max it can do.So do not Stress GUP that much
    500-700 clients per GUP would be fine.


  • 7.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 10:57 AM
    Top 10 Symantec Best Practices - Deploying Symantec Endpoint Protection Architecture

    http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ent-security.nsf/docid/2009012721190648


  • 8.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 10:59 AM
    what do you think about 1 SEPM, two redistribution relays.for each relay,10.000 clients divided group of 500-700 clients.and in each group I use GUP


  • 9.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 05, 2009 11:01 AM
     Well that would be fine..Since you would be using SQL so you have all options open so make good use of them.
    Having a Load-Balancer should be ideal.


  • 10.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 03:12 AM
    and for one relay using LUA, how many max clients can connect to it to would be fine?


  • 11.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 03:39 AM

    By relay do you mean LUA or SEPM (in Load Balancing mode)



  • 12.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 03:44 AM
    I mean LUA.

    other question, what the difference between SEPM in load balancing and SEPM?


  • 13.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 04:36 AM
    Since you will be having 20,000 clients so definitely you will go with SQL database.So when you are using SQL database here you can have multiple SEPM consoles connecting to one SQL database.Here the 1st SEPM will be the main SEPM rest will SEPM SEPM loadbalancers/Failovers

    with a SEPM loadbalancer your client traffic will be distributed among the SEPMs
    If any SEPM fails other will take over and clients will start reporting to the other SEPM automatically.

    Read This :
    About Load Balancing and Failover Clustering in Symantec Endpoint Protection 11.0
    http://service1.symantec.com/support/ent-security.nsf/docid/2008032810341548?Open&seg=ent

    I would recommend to install 1 SEPM and atleast 1 more SEPM Console.
    Then you  can have GUP for the clients.


  • 14.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 05:14 AM
    Well, but how about recomandation for number of clients connecting SEPM, LUA? I've read that for GUP, it support up to 1000 clients but 500-700 would be better !


  • 15.  RE: question about AV architecture
    Best Answer

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 05:30 AM
    Do you want the Clients to directly conenct to LUA or do you want SEPM to connect to LUA.

    What LUA does is it downloads the updates and publishes it on it http:/servername/clu-prod directory
    so everybody connect to this link and downloads the defs.

    So 1 SEPM and 1 Client will take almost same amount of bandwidth when they connect to LUA.
    So GUP and LUA would have similar have similar bandwidth when it comes to concurrent connections.


  • 16.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 07:09 AM
    The number of clients connecting to SEPM depends on the type of dataabse.
    Upto 5000 Clients embedded database
    More then 5000 Clients SQL


  • 17.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 07:39 AM
    If u have 100 clients in one branch why to go with multiple GUP's, one GUP is enough as you are ware that it supports 1000 clients.

    There are two possibilities

    1. Branches with below 500 clients use 1 GUP

    2. Branches with over 500 clients use 2 or 3 GUP's

    This will help u in faster updation.

    Regards...
    Ramji Iyyer 



  • 18.  RE: question about AV architecture

    Posted Oct 06, 2009 08:13 AM
    I think there's a misunderstanding of the "connections" limit - don't worry about the "XP connections limitations" with the GUP.
    1 will support 100 EASILY! Besides, what are the odds of all 100 connecting at the exact same time.
    I fear that sometimes things are "over-thought".
    Don't confuse GUP roles for DEFS UPDATES with the SEM role and heartbeats to the SEM, etc.