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Required Storage

Created: 02 May 2014 | 12 comments

We are adding a new NAS to our environment, and I have a question regarding space required for backups. Currently, I have about 10TB on a SAN connected via fiber to 3 ESXi hosts and our Server 2008 backup exec server. I have roughly  9TB of space on the BE server, which is sufficient for weekly full and daily diffs of the VMs on the SAN.

 

The new NAS I am putting in (or additional tray of disks to the SAN) will be 40TB of data.  This is the most I have ever backed up, and I am honestly not sure how much space I need to add to the BE server. The general plan is the 15TB will be read-only archive, the rest active data changing daily. Once a file has not been modified for 3 months, it will be moved to the archive.

 

SO, theoretically I will be backing the archive up straight to tape only when data is added to it. The other 25TB will require a weekly full and daily diff/inc. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should quote storage for this? I am initially thinking a DAS with 10-12 disks 4TB each.

Operating Systems:

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CraigV's picture

Hi,

 

Large TB drives are recommended to be in RAID6 configuration by a number of storage manufacturers. If you went RAID6 (4+2) for instance, then you're looking at only around 32TB using 12 HDDs.

You need to find out what the recommendation from the NAS manufacturer is first. Once done, try work out a change rate on the data, and consider dedupe as well.
Thanks!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

timvan007's picture

Thanks for the suggestion. I am re-testing dedupe this week to see what my ratio will be on the initial 10TB of data. When I first installed BE 2012 the performance on dedupe was terrible, so I decided not to use it for a while, but will pretty much need it now.

 

I am not worried about raid configu as of yet. Need to establish how much storage I need before determining the disks and DAS I get for the server. I guess my question is, am i missing something? Do I just need to calculate total size of storage for a full weekly + expected amount of data to change daily for 6 days and purchase enough storage for the deduped ratio of that total, or is there a better way to determine how much disk storage I need for the B2D before duplicating to tape?

CraigV's picture

I would personally do mine as follows:

1. Work out the space required for a FULL backup, and x by the retention period.

2. Work out a guestimate on the DIFF/INCR on a daily basis and x by the number of days run or retention period.

3. Work out the space required for any MOnthy jobs if you run these.

This is going to give you an idea, although nothing concrete. Some companies have a calculator that will work out the amount of disk space required. Some have applications like EMC. Symantec have a dedupe calculator which is worth checking out.

Thanks!

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

teiva-boy's picture

If you want to try out dedupe backups again, have at least two CPU's with at least 4 cores each or more. Have a minimum of 16GB OF RAM, ideally 24GB or more. And most importantly, your disk subsystem must be able to easily sustain north of 200MB/s of read/write work loads, I shoot for 300 or better.

The mention of EMC's calculator is for EmC employees/partners only and works for DataDomain only which is superior in every way to BE's dedupe(except cost), so it wouldn't work accurately. Unless you just divide the output by half. ;-p. Even Symantec's calculator is flawed, I'd say its about 40% off from reality. So add 40% more storage than shown

There is an online portal, save yourself the long hold times. Create ticket online, then call in with ticket # in hand :-) http://mysupport.symantec.com "We backup data to restore, we don't backup data just to back it up."

CraigV's picture

...what EMC calculator? I never mentioned this. I mentioned that some companies have calculators that will help in assisting with a ballpark figure for backups/back-end disk storage required. 

EMC was mentioned in terms of software they have that can assist with this. I could've mentioned HP, or NetApp for that matter too.

Thanks!

 

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

teiva-boy's picture

Reread your earlier post.  That said EMC's calculator/application will only help with EMC dedupe appliances and wont help size Symantec dedupe configs.

There is an online portal, save yourself the long hold times. Create ticket online, then call in with ticket # in hand :-) http://mysupport.symantec.com "We backup data to restore, we don't backup data just to back it up."

CraigV's picture

"Some companies have a calculator that will work out the amount of disk space required. Some have applications like EMC."

 

At no stage did I state EMC have a calculator...reread. 

Alternative ways to access Backup Exec Technical Support:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/alte...

timvan007's picture

Thanks for the comments everyone. I made it through the weekend and am still not impressed with Backup Exec 2012's dedup on Server 2008 R2, so I am most likely going to look at an appliance for my dedupe. It's unfortunate, but I'm pretty convinced it's the software at this point. 64GB RAM, 2 procs, disks can hold up to sustained read and write, but I flip the switch for dedupe, and B2D and duplicate to tape jobs are cut just about in half for speeds.

 

IE: My main file server usually backs upan average of 2,000GB at 9,500MB/min in under 10 hours consistently. This is just software compressed B2D, with no dedupe. If I delete the disk storage, clean the partition, and create a dedupe disk storage on the same exact array, speeds are 1/3rd the speed. Processor is not pegged, RAM is not maxed out. 

 

My thinking is offloading the dedupe to an appliance like Dell, Quantum, or revenetix would give me the space I need for this expansion, as well as decent dedupe performance. Has anyone else went down this route for 40-50TB of storage, or is it probably still worth going DAS for the windows box and turning off dedupe to alleviate the performance issues?

teiva-boy's picture

DataDomain is actually one of the best appliances that work with BackupExec, with over a 65% market share for dedupe appliances globally.

Outside of that, exagrid has an nice product too, since it works like a NAS for landing space then dedupes later. Giving it faster ingest speeds.

Avoid anything quantum like the plague, except for storNext

There is an online portal, save yourself the long hold times. Create ticket online, then call in with ticket # in hand :-) http://mysupport.symantec.com "We backup data to restore, we don't backup data just to back it up."

timvan007's picture

Thanks, I had a call with Quantum and so far it has been beat around the bush to even get introductory pricing. I will proceed with caution if that is not a great product to use with backup exec.

teiva-boy's picture

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/09/quantum_re...

The underlying message is not that the competitors are bigger than Quantum, it's that the DXi product is inferior.  I've also had a lot more issues with Scalars than I've had with HP libraries, or SpectraLogic.

There is an online portal, save yourself the long hold times. Create ticket online, then call in with ticket # in hand :-) http://mysupport.symantec.com "We backup data to restore, we don't backup data just to back it up."

timvan007's picture

Well, Quantum failed to even follow up after my sales call, and I don't feel like babying them through a sale so they've lost my attention from this thread and their service. I'm actually testing Server 2012 native dedup and backing up just to normal compressed backups on a disk array without backup exec or third party dedupe.