Endpoint Management and Virtualization Trusted Advisors Community merge into SED TA Community

Hi Guys,

I've seen a lot of rubbish going on, certainly on the Backup Exec forums. These have included, but are not limited too:

1. Plagiarism - guys simply posting other people's work as their own;

2. Posting the same information as someone else after a significant amount of time has elapsed;

3. Posting irrelevant information;

4. Editing out a post but not getting their post deleted, therefore keeping the single point they just scored;

5. Getting a solution when it wasn't warranted (ie. someone else posted the correct information before!), and not having the decency to tell the PM to switch it (or as an admin/TA to do so).

6. Not giving people credit for work/solutions/effort where it is due!

What are the chances we can work together to get some sort of community rules together and then post them as a sticky on all the forums? This way we can at least refer to this if something happens, and it becomes a bit more formal?

Thanks,

Craig

PS: Call me a stickler, but I just like people playing by the rules and not trying to do the system or other people in! ;-)

Hi Craig,

I think you raise a good suggestion here about posting a code of conduct. We have the terms and conditions on the site, and have a code of conduct internally, and this code of conduct could certainly be posted explicitly on the site. 

What do others think about the idea of a published code of conduct? And what would you think would be the most appropriate location for it? Featured forum? Other area?

BTW, I'm going to expand this conversation to the other TA's as think that this is something that applies across Connect and not in any one community.

Thanks for bringing this up, Craig!

I have to admit that I occasionally delete postings which are repeating information already provided or are otherwise rather blatant point earning posts, as well as empty posts.  I totally agree that a code of practice should be published - perhaps the most obvious way would be to add a coloured button on the top Connect banner that states "Code of Practice".

I would also like to suggest a modification to the "Mark as Solution" button, so that it appears as a "Solved by User" button on any posts by the thread originator.  

Craig,

You hit the nail on the head. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one seeing this, especially in the Security forum. I'm glad you brought this up.

My ramblings....

Points 1 and 2 really chap my backside the MOST. What bothers me the most is I see it from Symantec employees. Now, I'll be the first to say I do enjoy earning the reward points but more to the point I just like helping out others. Back a few years ago before I became an expert on SEP, I would run into a lot of issues and I would turn to the forum for answers. I hardly ever put in a support call because Connect would have the answer and I would be done and onto the next wall to bang my head against. I've always felt Connect is a crown jewel for Symantec support and I can't even tell you how much time it has saved me. Than I had the honor of becoming a TA and I was happy to give back to the community. I wanted to make sure that as a TA I was giving the same high level of support that I got from other TAs when I was struggling.

I've let a lot of things go on the forum that fall under your points above. Mainly, because the first time (and only) time I approached another user who blatantly plagiarized a post of mine told me "don't be mad, I was just helping out a user." I thought "well I can't really do anything but report or delete the post" I just didn't want to go around playing sheriff so I would give a thumbs down or ignore it if I saw. And thumbs down would probably be the wrong thing to do because the post is helpful, it's just a double post. On a side note, I find it funny it when someone uses my screenshots and I know they're mine because I will secretly mark them in a way that can only prove it is mine

But all of your points are excellent and see them being abused all the time.

One other point that I would like to add that I see often is when a solution has already been marked, someone will come in and post a similar if not exact response to what was marked as the solution. Wow that ones gets me too just thinking about it.

But I'm here to help out/offer idea's in whatever capacity.

Cheers,

Brian

I like the idea of simple 'code of conduct' guidelines.

I have just read through the 'Terms and Conditions' again, but I'm afraid, I got 'lost' roundabout point 6 or so...

I agree that it should be a 'Featured Item' in each forum. Although lots of users don't read the 'featured items', it will available to refer to when needed.

Thanks all...Kimberley: that would be a great idea.

Sorry, should have tagged this post slightly better than I did!

I don't like being plagiarised, especially when the same person (Symantec employee) seems to feel he's done nothing wrong. I REALLY don't like that, which means that I will now double-check his posts to see if he does it again.

That aside, I've been priviledged to be a TA, and also been privvy to reporting guys that we (pkh included) knew were "playing" the forums. Posting rubbish and getting solutions, or getting multiple people to logon with the same account and going all-night. Swathi did some really amazing work here which we really appreciated!

I just don't like some of the things happening here, and having something to point a finger at would help.

Thanks all for the input!

re: Mike's comment query on plagiarism:

I assume by plagiarism, you mean people copy other peoples comments, rather than linking to them, but the points awarded are no different from linking or copying, so what is the point - is this just for the prestige of passing this off as your own knowledge, or do you mean something else by plagiarism?

I am assuming "plagiarism" here refers to passing off someone else's comment/work as your own.

Referencing/linking/quoting the manual, or even someone else's comment is not plagiarism, as it still helps the original poster eg: as in many cases, where the OP appears to be too lazy *cough* or possibly otherwise unable to find the original references/document(s) on their own, so although it's the same information, it's still valid to say this was the solution (the "solution" being to search/read existing documentation)

example: OP1 posts a problem, TA1 replies with solution to look at pNN in manual, do steps X, Y, Z

OP2 then posts similar problem

Scenario 1: For OP2, TA1 can either copy the text from OP1's post; or link back to their soln on OP1's post

This is valid, as if OP2 had searched/read OP1's issue, they may not have had to create their post in the first place. TA1 still gets extra point/soln for helping.

Scenario 2: TA2 posts link back to OP1's post saying "solution here as provided by TA1" (or can copy text giving credit to TA1)

Again valid, TA2 gets point as this still also solves OP2's issue while giving TA1 credit. Ideally OP2 could vote up TA1's solution post too, but hey, baby steps ....

Scenario 3: TA2 cuts & pastes TA1's text from OP1, and gives that as solution to OP2 with no link back to original issue

I would regard this as plagiarism, as this would be TA2 passing off TA1's solution as their own.

(obviously TA2 could be any user, not necessarily a TA ... but you get the idea)

For some problems the solutions may always be similar (ie: always run same commands x, y, z), so there may be many solutions that may effectively be the same thing but may not necessarily be copied, it's literally just the same solution, so it's a bit hard to get around that - from Craig and Brian's responses it sounds like there have been cases where something has been deliberately/obviously copied though (eg: Brian mentioned screenshots - that sounds fairly deliberate unless the other person has configured their system the exact same way...!)

I agree...plagiarism is taking someone else's words without reference and using them as your own...as in taking words directly from a Symantec TN and posting it as your own because you're too lazy to go back and copy the URL <--...just gone through this now.

It doesn't refer to copying data from a document and referencing that document, or referencing the document.

Just would like some rules we can point people towards

So I was right saying:

I assume by plagiarism, you mean people copy other peoples comments, rather than linking to them

and also right by saying:

but the points awarded are no different from linking or copying, so what is the point - is this just for the prestige of passing this off as your own knowledge

and you have added that:

posting it as your own because you're too lazy to go back and copy the URL

So for people who are too lazy to copy URL, they are also going to be too lazy to read a 'code of conduct' so I am not sure how you can stop this.

For me, with the way points are currently awarded, plagiarism doesn't bother me as its similar to the old adage "Imitation is the sinceriest form of flaterism" - i.e. if someone is copying what I wrote they must think it is ok, the only slight downside is that I may have got a thumbs up vote if they had referenced the link.   I think plagiarism would become more of an issue if points were awarded differently, so at the moment, you get 1 point for a thumbs up vote (which I think is too low when you consider if the person is too lazy to search Connect and you reference your own or someone elses post, you get 35 points, but if the person finds the post themselves, you get 1 point if you lucky), and the amount you write has no influence on how many points you get, so you can write loads and get nil points or write one sentance and get 35 points, as oppose to some forums that award you for how much you write and this is where copying someone elses words or copying sections of the manual would become an issue.

But I still think  a 'code of conduct' is a good idea, especially for points 5 and 6, but also for point 1 as although I think I have always linked to someone elses post, I may have copied text without referencing if it were only a sentence or 2 as I wasn't aware it bothered anyone.

Mike

True in all accounts, but in my case I lost a solution to someone who copied every single world of my post (for which I got the solution there), and didn't seem to be too bothered that it wasn't their words.

If you're going to cheat, don't make it obvious in other words.

But having a code of conduct at least gives some leverage, especially if you can prove to an admin that you have pointed this out to the guilty party, and makes a case stronger going-forward.

However, what bothers me might not bother someone else, but I like the debate around this...

Hi everyone!

Just wanted to let you you bring up some very good points particularly about plagarism. It's been a problem on the site and we have been trying to handle it as the issues are raised. Some of the forums see this more than others, but it is something we want to deal with on a site-wide approach.  I wanted to give you an update. We're working on a code of conduct that can be posted right now.  With Vision coming up next week and then the short week in the U.S., it may be a couple weeks before we can implement everything, but please know that we will make every effort to make the community better. But please continue to comment here. It is very helpful to hear your thoughts as we move forward.

Thanks for this Leslie...will be great to have implemented!