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SSR 2013 Trial - VSS_E_INSUFFICIENT_STORAGE error

Created: 30 Mar 2013 | 90 comments

Just downloaded SSR 2013 trial. (I was a Ghost 15 user, but upgraded to Windows 8 so can no longer use Ghost.)

On my first attempt to do a backup of my drive, I got a VSS_E_INSUFFICIENT_STORAGE error. A bit of online research made me think I had to go to System Properties|System Protection and increase the amount of disk space available for system protection, which I did. I increased it from about 9GB to about 100GB.

That did not help.

FWIW, my hard drive is about 923GB, with about 760GB free.

Any guidance?

Many thanks.

Ken

Operating Systems:

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KenIsaacson's picture

More info, after following some of the suggestions online:

I ran "vssadmin list writers" and found all stable except:

WMI Writer, which showed State: Failed and Last error: Timed out

Same result for MSSearch Service Writer.

Are these results relevant?

Thanks.

Ken

KenIsaacson's picture

After much research and dabbling, I think I narrowed down the problem, but have no solution.

My backup job seeks to backup the C drive and hidden drives ESP and WINRETOOLS. If WINRETOOLS is omitted, the backup runs without problem. However, SSR warns me that without including both ESP and WINRETOOLS, I may not be able to restore fully.

So, what's the problem with WINRETOOLS that is causing the error?

Thanks.
Ken

Markus Koestler's picture

Did you come across this: http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?pag...

*** Please mark thread as solved if you consider this to have answered your question(s) ***

KenIsaacson's picture

Markus,

Thanks for responding. I did see that article yesterday, and I've taken all the listed steps, except that I don't know how to do the 3rd--"Ensure that the various Application VSS Writer services can be started in the services console without any errors"--because I don't know the names of the various services.

However, I do know that when the computer starts up, if I run VSSADMIN LIST WRITERS, all writers are shown to be stable. It is only after trying a backup that includes WINRETOOLS that I find some to have failed. (Incidentally, the list of failed writers that I gave in an earlier post is incomplete. There are more.)

I've run the batch file. I also ran SFC /SCANNOW, which found no errors.

Don't know what to do from here. Symantec tech support won't help me, because I'm using a 60-day trial. But I'm unlikely to actually buy the program (which would entitle me to tech support) if I can't be assured that it works. Seems like a silly customer support philosophy IMO.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks again.

Markus Koestler's picture

I've escalated this post to support, I hope someone will take care of your problem.

*** Please mark thread as solved if you consider this to have answered your question(s) ***

KenIsaacson's picture

Thanks, Markus... How long do they generally take to respond?

Markus Koestler's picture

It depends.

*** Please mark thread as solved if you consider this to have answered your question(s) ***

Andy H.'s picture

In C:\Program Files\Symantec\Symantec System Recovery\Utility, double-click onPartInfo.exe. It will generate a PARTINFO.TXT. Reply and attach that file. 

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

KenIsaacson's picture

Andy,

Here's the file.

Thanks for offering to help.

AttachmentSize
partinfo.txt 40.72 KB
KenIsaacson's picture

Somewhat disappointed that no one from Symantec is offering any help on this issue. Baffles me that they offer a trial version, hoping that people will decide to pay for the product, but won't give support when the trial doesn't work. Why would I decide to actually buy the darn thing then?

<sigh>

JohnTech's picture

I'm having the same problem/error message and need a solution.  Brand new Dell XPS 8500 W8 64bit.

kumarm's picture

Please do following and let us know

1) From command prompt, run vssadmin list shadows

2) If it list any shadow copies, run vssadmin delete shadows /all

3) Check all the shadow copies are deleted

4) Run the backups

Also, let me know if you increased the shadow storage capacity for WinRE partition as well. If not, then please do so either through system properties or from command prompt by ruuning e.g. 

vssadmin resize ShadowStorage /For=\\?\Volume{a309c667-5a3f-4718-9d4b-e128827866eb} /On=\\?\Volume{a309c667-5a3f-4718-9d4b-e128827866eb} /MaxSize=UNBOUNDED

You can see the volume GUID by running command "mountvol"

JFYI (it seem not applicable in your case), there should be no bitlocked volume included in the backup

 

Thanks,

Manish

 

Andy H.'s picture

Sorry about that - I guess i dropped the ball on that. Try Kumarm's suggestion and let us know what you see. This information is also in technote: http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH200584 

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

JohnTech's picture

I deleted 5 shadow copies with vssadmin command.  Reran SSR and got same insufficient storage errors.  (Also get the vproconsole.exe there is no disk in drive d -- look at other thread for info on this problem).  Even after clicking continue SSR 2013 fails with insufficient storage.  (I had increased storage for c: drive to 50GB so plenty of room on it)

I then created a new backup definition of just the c: partition.  It is now running without any errors, so that looks good.

My partitions (Windows 8 was preinstalled by Dell, no modifications):

500mb efi system partition

40mb oem partition

500 mb recovery partition

918 gb c: partition

11.97 gb recovery partition

 

JohnTech's picture

AndyH, the SSR 2013 image backup of ONLY the C: partition completed successfully, after the initial two complaints "vproconsole.exe there is no disk in drive d...continue".

I have attached a partinfo.txt from the W8 pc.  When I ran the partinfo.exe program it said info complete for partition 1, then 2, and then I got 4 error messages:  error connecting to drive 2, 3,4, and 5.

This may be related to the other vproconsole problem.

For now I have resorted to using the Windows 8 "File History" function for hourly file backups to my external hard drive and SSR 2013 for a c: partition only image backup.  Obviously this isn't good enough if there is a total drive failure because I won't be able to restore to it's before condition with only the c: image.  

Hopefully Symantec can find some fixes.  Hope this info helps.

 

AttachmentSize
partinfo.txt 40.44 KB
Andy H.'s picture

John - As per Chris' last message, can you capture a screenshot of disk management so we can compare what Windows sees? Partinfo is showing disk 0 and 1, so we need to know what Windows is seeing as 2,3, 4 and 5.

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

JohnTech's picture

Andy, here is the screenshot from Disk Management.  Remember this is a brand new Win8 64 pc preinstalled by Dell and no other Symantec or Norton software was ever previously installed on it.

Disk 0 is hard drive, Disk 1 is external usb drive, and I think 2,3,4,5 are the flash card readers.  Then there is the CD/DVD drive.

If you want to move my comments to a new thread go ahead.  Not trying to confuse the thread and problem that Ken started, (but sounds same or similar to this one).

John

DIsk Management Capture.JPG
Chris Riley's picture

Can you also provide some more details on your WINRETOOLS partition:

What size is it and how much free space is there?

Is NTFS, FAT or FAT32?

Is it locked via BitLocker?

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

I believe WINRETOOLS partition is NTFS. Can you tell from the partinfo.txt file I attached on 02 Apr?

Thanks.

Ken

KenIsaacson's picture

Kumarm and Andy:

Have tried your suggestions. No luck. Saw the page Andy referred to, and as my 01 Apr post says, I ran that batch file, to no avail.

What next?

(Incidentally, to Chris's question: No BitLocker.)

Help!

Thanks,

Ken

Chris Riley's picture

Ken,

Sorry, I've been tied up with other things. I am working with another customer that is seeing a similar error, I'm currently waiting for him to confirm which volume is causing the error. He is seeing this on Windows 7.

Can you please provide a screenshot via disk management so we can see the layout of disks/partitions.

Also, does the following command work (run via command line, run as admin):

vssadmin create shadow for/=E:

Obviously substitue E: for whatever driver letter is assigned to the volume causing the error.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris, no problem, so long as I've not been forgotten!

I'm attaching a screenshot of the disk management window, as well as a screenshot of the SSR "Define Backup Wizard" showing the various disks. It's the WINRETOOLS drive that's causing the problem. If I exclude that drive from the backup, all runs smoothly.

Referring to the Disk Management shot, it looks like the WINRETOOLS drive corresponds to the 500 MB "Recovery Partition". (The "ESP" drive on the SSR wizard correspondends to the "EFI System Partition" on Disk Management, correct?)

I'm not sure about running the create shadow command, since the WINRETOOLS drive doesn't have a letter. Can I try that by using the volume GUID instead? I think I can pick that out in the partinfo.txt file I attached in one of my previous posts in this thread. (BTW, is there any useful info for you in that txt file?)

Thanks again for your help.

Best,

Ken

Andy H.'s picture

In addition to what you are going with Chris, go into the System Protection and disable System Protection on all drives. Then reboot, and try the backup again? If you have Windows System Protection turned on, this could conflict with SSR 2013 backups. 

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

KenIsaacson's picture

Andy,

Are you saying that if I want to use SSR, I won't have the ability to use the System Restore function??? That doesn't seem like a reasonable trade-off.

Andy H.'s picture

It was more as a test. See if 2011 works out and we'll go from there.

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

Chris Riley's picture

For those seeing this issue, can you provide the output of running this command:

vssadmin list shadowstorage

Also, are you able to test SSR 2011 on one of these machines to see if this works? If you are willing to try this, let me know, I can provide a download link for you.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

I'll be your guinea pig for the SSR 2011 trial. You can PM the link to me.

Here's the list shadowstorage output.

Thanks.

Ken

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]
(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>vssadmin list shadowstorage
vssadmin 1.1 - Volume Shadow Copy Service administrative command-line tool
(C) Copyright 2001-2012 Microsoft Corp.

Shadow Copy Storage association
   For volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{3c8d3417-21ad-47e7-b428-4fd157b37456}\
   Shadow Copy Storage volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{3c8d3417-21ad-47e7-b428-4fd157b374
56}\
   Used Shadow Copy Storage space: 4.41 GB (0%)
   Allocated Shadow Copy Storage space: 6.98 GB (0%)
   Maximum Shadow Copy Storage space: 923 GB (100%)

Shadow Copy Storage association
   For volume: (\\?\Volume{dc39d026-c6d3-4aa7-9b78-767100a0bc83}\)\\?\Volume{dc3
9d026-c6d3-4aa7-9b78-767100a0bc83}\
   Shadow Copy Storage volume: (\\?\Volume{dc39d026-c6d3-4aa7-9b78-767100a0bc83}
\)\\?\Volume{dc39d026-c6d3-4aa7-9b78-767100a0bc83}\
   Used Shadow Copy Storage space: 0 bytes (0%)
   Allocated Shadow Copy Storage space: 0 bytes (0%)
   Maximum Shadow Copy Storage space: UNBOUNDED (100%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris Riley's picture

Ken,

Are you running Windows 8? If yes, we cannot do this.....support for Win8 is only in SSR 2013.

If Win7, please go ahead and test 2011 - I have sent you the download link.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

After I posted, I realized this might be an issue. Yes, I'm running Win 8. So, I really need this resolved.

Over the weekend, I'll try Andy's test of disabling System Protection and seeing if SSR 2013 works then.

Thanks.

 

JohnTech's picture

Chris,

Here is the vssadmin list shadowstorage output from Windows 8 elevated command prompt (see earlier posts for disk management screen shot)

 

vssadmin 1.1 - Volume Shadow Copy Service administrative command-line tool
(C) Copyright 2001-2012 Microsoft Corp.
 
Shadow Copy Storage association
   For volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{e8facf58-3c9f-4917-800a-01dbf418f13a}\
   Shadow Copy Storage volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{e8facf58-3c9f-4917-800a-01dbf418f13a}\
   Used Shadow Copy Storage space: 1.27 GB (0%)
   Allocated Shadow Copy Storage space: 2.75 GB (0%)
   Maximum Shadow Copy Storage space: 55.1 GB (6%)
 
Note the max storage space is 55GB -- lots of extra room.  I increased that early on days ago after the initial failure message of SSR 2013.
 
John
KenIsaacson's picture

Andy - Just ran the test: Disabled System Protection and rebooted. SSR still generates the same error.

Chris - On Apr 11, you suggested I run vssadmin create shadow for/=(the drive causing the problem). I haven't been able to do this because I can't identify the WINRETOOLS partition in a way that this command will recognize it.

Now what?

Thanks for your continued efforts!

Chris Riley's picture

I am going to see if the customer I am working with can test with SSR 2011 SP3. If this works for him (assuming he's happy to try this), it suggests a problem (defect) with 2013.

I will update you when I know more...

Chris Riley's picture

FYI - I have now formerly escalated this issue to our engineering team for further investigation:

http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH205081

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/issues/bac...

This issue is specific to the one that my customer is seeing. However, my feeling is that the root cause is probably the same for Windows 7 and 8.

I will update here as and when I get some news on this. This may take a few days though.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

Is there a reason that it's listed only as a Win 7 issue? Can we assume that whatever the engineering team addresses will work with Win 8 as well?

Once again, many thanks for your efforts.

Chris Riley's picture

The customer that I am working with is only seeing the issue on Windows 7.

It's too early to say if the issue on Win 7 and Win 8 is the same. If it is, I will update the TechNote to list both operating systems.

KenIsaacson's picture

Uh, but I'm seeing it on Win 8... Are there more steps I need to take to classify it as a Win 8 problem? I'm glad to do what's needed (within reason!).

Thanks.

Chris Riley's picture

I would say wait until we get more news on this once our engineering team have analyzed the issue.

Chris

Chris Riley's picture

Quick update for everyone...

The issue for the customer I was working with is now resolved and the solution has been added to this TechNote:

http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH205081

Hope it helps.

JohnTech's picture

Chris, I looked at your TECH205081 which involves assigning a drive letter to the  System Reserved Partition, etc.

Which is the "System Reserved Partition" on this new Dell pc?  See my Disk Mgmt screen print earlier.  Dell has 5 partitions on the Win 8 hard drive:

EFI System Partition
OEM Partition
Recovery Partition
OS c:
Recovery Partition

 

Chris Riley's picture

Which volume is causing the problem?

The customer I was working with only saw the problem when he included the Win7 system reserved partition so this is the solution mentioned in the TechNote I referenced earlier.

However, I can see from various different people that this problem is not limited to the system reserved partition.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

I've been away, so I'm only just getting around to trying this solution. However, Windows 8 will not let me assign a drive letter to this reserved drive.

In Computer Managment (right-clicking My Computer), Disk Managment, I've located the drive I need (It's a 500 MB "Recovery Partition"). If I right click on that volume, the only option is "Help". Unlike, for instance, if I right click the Primary Petition, where I get a list of options, including "Change Drive Letter and Path".

So how do I assign a drive letter to the WINRETOOLS drive?

Thanks.

Ken

Chris Riley's picture

Are you able to assign a drive letter using diskpart (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300415)?

Be aware that the solution I found for my customer may not necessarily apply to you as well, seeing as you are running a different operating system.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

First, I want to thank you for the attention you've been giving this. So please understand that my comments in this reply are not in any way directed to you and are not meant to take away from the efforts you have put forth.

That being said, I'm extremely dissatisfied. I downloaded this product on a trial basis seven weeks ago, and have not been able to use it even once. Almost seven weeks ago, I started this thread to report the problem I'm having on my Windows 8 machine.

Since then, on the thread I started, I've seen people trying to solve similar problems on other operating systems. I simply cannot believe that I am the only person experiencing this on Win 8. I cannot devote my time and effort day after day trying out possible solutions in the hope that I might stumble upon the answer.

I call upon Symantec to figure out what the darned problem is with this product on a Win 8 machine and then to advise me of the way to fix it. And, Chris, if there's anything you can do to facilitate this, I'd truly appreciate it.

In short, on this thread, which I started almost 7 weeks ago, seeking a solution to a problem on a Win 8 machine, what's happened is that I'm told "We figured out how to make it work on a different OS." Great.

Thanks for letting me have my mini-rant.

Best,

Ken

Chris Riley's picture

Ken,

I understand your frustration and wont take your comments personally.

All I can say is that the customer that I personally was working with, saw the issue on Windows 7 and we were able to find a solution. Whilst the error is the same as what you are seeing, the underlying root cause may (or may not) be different.

I would say that it's unlikely that you are the only person seeing this issue. However, I am not in direct contact (via a support case) with anyone experiencing this issue at the moment. If this changes, I will update this thread with details.

My recommendation to you would be to open a formal support case so that this can be investigated further. As you are in trial mode, you may not have a support contract. If this is the case, please contact your local Symantec sales office for assistance.

Hope that helps.

KenIsaacson's picture

Chris,

The first thing I did when I encountered this problem was to contact support. Because I am on a trial, they refused to help and suggested I try here. I found this quite peculiar, since the refusal to help does not encourage me in the least to PAY for the product without knowing if it will work--which is, of course, the very reason that free trials are offered in the first place.

I'm sorely tempted to just throw in the towel, if this is the way that Symantec "supports" its product. Frankly, I think it's ridiculous.

Chris Riley's picture

I believe that we are looking at support options for customers in your situation but I don't know the current status of this at the moment.

As I mentioned in my last post, you may want to consider contacting your local sales office for help. They may be able to open a courtesy case for you. There are some things that cannot be fixed via the forums and I think your issue falls into this category.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Markus Koestler's picture

Have a look for a possible workaround here: https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/forums/upg...

*** Please mark thread as solved if you consider this to have answered your question(s) ***

tomaszec's picture

I am having the exact same problem and from some other forums out there, it seems to be that the WINRETOOLS partition needs to be resized.  Windows requires more free space than what is currently allocated for a 500MB disk.   The folks that have resolved this issue have reduced the size of the 500MB partition to 490Mb using a partition manager program (ex. partitionwizard, paragon partition manager).   Going under the 500Mb limit reduces the free space required from 320Mb to 50Mb and magically you can now backup the WINRETOOLS partition with Symantec.   

 

My problem is:  none of these partition products will let me resize the WINRETOOLS partition.

 

5/6/13 Update:

I have been able to resolve this problem via 2 procedures gathered from various different sources:

1) Must resize the WINRETOOLS partition to be less than 500Mb.   I was able to finally use Paragon Partition Manager to eventually resize the partition to 450MB.   I had to get Paragon to help and they were able to release the hidden partition somehow.    In any event, i then proceeded to step #2

2) Next the ShadowStorage of the WINRETOOLS partition needed to be resized.   I first assigned a drive letter to the newly sized WINRETOOLS partition and issued the following command where "G" was the new drive letter.

 vssadmin Resize ShadowStorage /For=G: /On=G: /MaxSize=UNBOUNDED

After this command was successful, i removed the drive letter "G" and then was able to perform all backups with no more errors.

Chris

JohnTech's picture

Chris,

As shown in my previous post and screenshot, Disk Management shows 5 partitions on this brand new Dell XPS 8550 (Windows 8 64bit):

 

EFI System Partition
OEM Partition
Recovery Partition
OS c:
Recovery Partition
 
Today I attempted to define INDIVIDUAL partition backups (one at a time)  with SSR 2013 in an attempt to identify the problem partition(s).
 
First of all, SSR 2013 showed ONLY 4 partitions, not 5 and they are labeled this way:
os c: (918gb)
ESP (500MB)
PBR Image (12GB)
WINRETOOLS (500MB)
 
Results:
os c: by itself backed up fine
ESP (500MB) by itself backed up fine
PBR Image (12GB) got error E4F3000E.  Also when defining the backup this SSR did not find any other associated partitions that it wanted to backup with it??
WINRETOOLS (500MB) also got VSS error (VSS_E_Insufficient_Storage)
 
See attached screen shot, same for both PBR Image and Winretools image
 
Now what?
 
1. Is this being addressed in SSR 2013 SP1 (whenever that comes out)?
2. Is every Dell purchaser of a new XPS 8500 Windows 8 pc and SSR 2013 calling you for assistance?  I hate to start modifying partition parameters and drive letters on a brand new PC that otherwise is running fine.
3. I'm using Windows 8 File History right now for file backups and SSR 2013 for c: partition backup.  However that is NOT adequate for recovering from a total drive failure.
 
Help!
 
John
SSR 2013 VSS Error E4F3000E.jpg
Chris Riley's picture

I think you need to open a case so the issues can be investigated fully. Unfortunately there is only so much I personally can help with via these forums.

Chris

JohnTech's picture

Chris, I opened a Symantec support case ticket today with summary and url reference to this thread.

JohnTech's picture

Update:  After opening case ticket with Symantec, they contacted me, and collected some Symantec logs.  They are "aware of the problem with Windows 8", will analyze the logs and get back to me.

Also, note attached screenshot of SSR Backup wizard.  SSR2013 detects just 4 partitions, not 5 that Disk Management detects (see earlier screen shot of that).

Of those 4 partitions, I can individually backup OS, and ESP partitions.  The VSS error occurs on both the PBR Image and WINRETOOLS partitions.

Other posts and tech articles keep referring to System Reserved Partition.  I have no idea what that is because it doesn't exist on Dell XPS 8500 Windows 8 pc.

SSR 2013 Backup Wizard Windows 8 pc.jpg
tomaszec's picture

This isn't going to be a SSR 2013 problem.  They will eventually come back and tell you this is Dell and how windows 8 has changed it's file management protocols.  I went through this for 1 week.   As i indicated before this has to do with the size of the hidden partitions and the amount of SWAP space allocated to them.   The partition must be shrunken below 500mb and the Shadow Storage allocation for the partition needs to allow for more "temporary" space.  Setting it to unbounded for this type of partition is acceptable.   The 2 steps below will resolve your problem and SSR2013 will work.  The problem is step #1 is incredibly difficult to get done.   I have no idea how the paragon help desk support "unlocked" the partition for me but they did.  Once they did i was able to easily resize it, assign a letter to it and then issue the vssadmin command to set the shadowstorage limit to unbounded.    Once that was completed, i no longer had any issues with SSR2013.    SSR2013 support also told me this had nothing to do with this being a trial version of the software as i had the trial version as well.  Once i got everything working, i then purchased the official version.   I've read that these exact same problems are ocurring with Acronis as well on Dell machines because of how DEll sized the hidden partition and how windows8 manages its swap/shadowstorage space now. 

1) Must resize the WINRETOOLS partition to be less than 500Mb.   I was able to finally use Paragon Partition Manager to eventually resize the partition to 450MB.   I had to get Paragon to help and they were able to release the hidden partition somehow.    In any event, i then proceeded to step #2

2) Next the ShadowStorage of the WINRETOOLS partition needed to be resized.   I first assigned a drive letter to the newly sized WINRETOOLS partition and issued the following command where "G" was the new drive letter.

 vssadmin Resize ShadowStorage /For=G: /On=G: /MaxSize=UNBOUNDED

Tom Francis's picture

This thread is the exact problem I am having with a brand new Dell E5530 Laptop running W8 Pro.

First my compliments to kenIsacson and others listed here for slogging through all this.

So there appears to be a solution but it involves buying another product, working through their tech support to change one partition, then manually changing another partition... and only then will Symantec's product work.

After using Ghost on dozens of PCs over the last 15 years, I would like to use a similar product going forward... but right now I have a customer anxious for their new PC.  Will be watching this thread to see  what Symantec comes up with now that you have defined the problem for them.

They really should consider compensating you in some way. You all deserve it.

Tomster2

JohnTech's picture

Suggestion from Symantec tech support:  Boot from the SSR Recovery CD and perform a "offline/cold" backup of the WINRETOOLS and PBR Image partitions (or whatever ones are causing the errors).

Because you are using the stand alone CD, the VSS errors should not occur, and since those partitions don't change, just save those backup images.  In Windows then select just the other partitions for normal daily/weekly etc. backup which shouldn't produce the error.  If a disaster restore is needed, combine the two for restore.

This sounds like a promising workaround for now.  I haven't tried it yet, just got the feedback.  I'm interested though to hear if this solution works for you.  Please post your results.

At least this workaround doesn't require modifying the partition parameters, size, or drive letters and doesn't require purchasing any other software.

Symantec also said they are aware of this problem not only with the Dell XPS 8500 but with other model Dell's as well.  Seems related to the Dell-recovery partitions that Dell includes on their drive.

Andy H.'s picture

As Tom and others have said, this is a Microsoft error caused by insufficient space on the volume being snapped by the Microsoft VSS framework. (Ghost 15 and SSR 2011 (and prior) used the Symantec VSS framework. SSR 2013 use MS VSS with MS recent improvements to VSS. Ironic, I know)

It's simple to duplicate the error: drag some files onto your System Reserved Partition so < 50Mb of freespace exists. Both SSR and Windows Backup will generate the same error in different formats:

Insufficient_Storage.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Insufficient_Storage II.jpg

In addition to Tom's suggestions, there is another way. I resolved this issue with another customer. We simply removed the system reserved partition. (This partition is necessary if using BitLocker, which the customer was not). With the boot files on the same partition as the OS, there was plenty of space for VSS. I post these instructions only if whomever does this creates a COLD backup of the complete system first in case you get stuck and need to restore.... 

 

1. Boot from the Windows installation disk.
2. When you get to the language screen, press Shift+F10 to get to a COMMAND PROMPT.
3. Enter diskpart, then list disk after diskpart is loaded.
4. Enter select disk [Windows disk number].
5. Enter list partition
6. Enter select partition [system reserved partition number].
6. Enter delete partition override. The SRP is now gone.
7. Enter select partition [Windows partition from step 5], then enter active. This select the OS partition and sets it as ACTIVE.
8. Close the command prompt and reboot.
9. Boot back to the Windows installation disk and into the System Recovery Options screen using your retail Windows 7 installation disk or system repair disc.
10. Select the Startup Repair option.
11. Startup Repair will scan your computer to attempt to find and fix any startup problems. You may be  prompted to make choices as it tries to fix the problem. It might also restart your computer as it makes repairs. NOTE: You can click on the View diagnostic and repair details link to see a detailed summary of what Startup Repair has done.
12. Click on the Restart button. Windows should now boot. A check of Disk Management shows raw space where the SRP used to be:
RAWUntitled.jpg

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

KenIsaacson's picture

Andy,

You're still apparently talking about Windows 7. Can we please re-focus the discussion to Windows 8, which is the OS I originally posted about?

How do we get Symantec to simply fix this darn thing so it works with Windows 8 Dell machines?

Thanks.

Ken

piker21's picture

Ken that was a point I was trying to make. to shift from technical issues, to the core of the problem:

1-) Ghost worked. Ghost 15 worked well with windows 7.

2-) Windows 8 is out. Symantec introduces ssr 2013 for windows 8. otherwise, we would be using Ghost 15.

3-) with that being a fact: it is the responsibility of the software maker, Symantec, to adhere to the new code, and the way the operating system works. it is not microsoft's or yours and mine, to go through a misrable hell, to make this thing work. IT SHOULD HAVE WORKED OUT OF THE BOX. period.

4-) tech support have been so bad, I cant even describe the process without mouthing off.

5-) under the money back guarantee, i asked for a refund and cannt even get back a response by email or phone.

6-) may be the issue involves windows 8 structure + dell. so what? when you market a mass product to the public, the least we expect, is a complete test on the highest selling pc in the world. (yes dell, has 35% of the global market or better).

7-) knowing that this product was NEVER tested, is a serious issue.

I have a dell XPS 8500 and another all in one. both with windows 8 64, I7, 2 TB drives, and same partitions as everybody mentioned above. For the record, I tried every suggestion above, using diskpart, stopped system restore, looked up about everything in the services.msc, assign / remove drive letters, all that....no go. still have the same exact problem.

Today, I got  a call from Symantec tech support, (here in the US, go figure, they still have some)..and he said that it is an apparent symantec program coding issue and it is escalated now to R&D to address. (not to offend my indian friends, but the few hours I spent on the phone, slow pace, hold, and hold again, were seriously annoying). any way till then, will wait for either a refund, or solution which ever comes first. I prefer a refund with interest.

 

tomaszec's picture

This sort of thing is nothing new to Dell and/or Microsoft.  That is, since the dawn of Windows releases to the public, the first year is frought with figuring things out.   Many of us have resisted and waited until the first service pack.  In this situation, Dell is really the one at fault here.   If they would have properly sized the hidden partition, a simple littel command can be issued and SSR 2013 would be working out of the box as you want.   I really don't think SSR 2013 is going to ever fix this for you.

 

Now,  you say you tried everything.  Did you successfully resize the partition?  I don't see that result anywhere in the dialogue.. I see that you don't want to purchase or download a 3rd party software solution to resolve the situation.  I can only say that you won't be able to fix it unless you do.    Did you try the other solution of trying to back it up from the recovery CD thus bypassing the VSS thing.   I suspect that you may still run into the Dell partition size issue, but i don't know.

 

Chris

piker21's picture

Chris respectfully...

you are full of it. the question is WHY did your company (apparently) not test the product before selling it? and yes, Symantec did not ask me, or warn me, about the product BEFORE they took my money. therefore, it is their problem not dell or ms.  if you design a website, its getto work on ALL browsers, properly and effectively, so does your product. dell does what dell does, and it is your responsibility, to produce a product that works.

the problem is vss. yes. ghost used a separate engine. ssr2013 relies on windows VSS. apparently, symantec changed things, without fully adhering to the new code. when dell build a pc, they are working on platform that performs as described. and it did, out of the box. your excuses, are seriously ugly and uncalled for.

yes did do everything, but re-sizing, as you cannot do that in windows 8, without buying extra software, and I dont see why i should do that, after i spent $170 already on ssr2013, while, novabackup Professional 14.5, and StorageCraft's Shadow protect 5, work perfectly, (yes on dell, and any PC), for less than half the price?

myself and many others, went with symantec out of devotion over many years to teh product. and in return we get what? ugly and stupid ass comments. may be its dell+MS+mycat+thecolorofmywalls...

and its never symantec. how arrogant are you guys really???

 

Andy H.'s picture

(I don't think tomaszecis a Symantec employee)

enlightenedIf anyone with this problem is willing to do so, I'd like you to upload a backup of your Dell\SRP\Utility\etc. non-operating system partition(s) that seem to be generating these errors. As mentioned earlier, this can be done by booting to the System Recovery Disk and creating a backup from there. Ghost 15\SSR 2011 backups will also work. (I don't need your operating system or data partition). 

If you're willing, please send me a private message and I'll reply with the upload information. If you have an open Symantec case, please include that case # in your message.

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

Chris Riley's picture

Today, I got  a call from Symantec tech support, (here in the US, go figure, they still have some)..and he said that it is an apparent symantec program coding issue and it is escalated now to R&D to address.

Can you please provide your case number?

piker21's picture

first case number Case Number 04333350. somehow they mark my cases as closed??? it not me, and i dont know why. another is  04304908. may be you can track all the info from either case number. thanks for actually getting to this.

Chris Riley's picture

04333350 - this is still open

04304908 - this is closed and appears to be for a different issue (cannot see volume C)

GSevison's picture

FWIW I have the same exact problem as this thread poses, with a new Dell Laptop with Windows 8. I Cannot do an image backup, but can do limited file backups from single directories.

Error message is exactly the same as in the start of this thread.  15 days of attempted fixes and no workable results.

Just adding my voice to those indicating we can evaluate the product (I also have a trial to see if it will work, since I formerly used Ghost for many years, but of course Ghost 15 will not work with windows 8.

Just another note, when asked which products I use, there is no mention of this product, Symantec Recovery System 2013, so I checked Ghost.  Not effective since it looks like I will only get updates on a product I am not using and with which I have no problems. ;-)

Thanking all of those who have worked on this problem, and await a fix before the trial period expires without a chance to even begin to evaluate the product.

Respectfully, and grateful to you all.

 

Tom Francis's picture

Amen to those waiting for a solution.  Same problem. I feel your pain.

All imaging programs seem to have warts... but I knew where they were in Ghost.

Now I have to decide between waiting for System Recovery to be fixed... or start trying other products that seem to work with Windows 8.

However, I need to get a backup in place for the Dell E5530 W8 x64 and deliver this system to an anxious customer...

Tom Francis

ravindra_teli's picture

 

Hi Tom,
 
Would it be possible for you to upload a snapshot view of your diskmgmt console and also SSR console snapshot (where you don't see the OEM partition for selection). We just wanted to double check that you are also getting 5 partitions in the factory built product.
 
Thanks,
Ravi
JohnTech's picture

Tom,

I'm waiting for a fix from Symantec as well.  The consensus on this thread seems to be that it is NOT a Dell problem, and it is NOT a Microsoft VSS problem.

There are several alternatives suggested above  in this thread:

Other products that work with Windows 8 (and Dell) according to earlier postings:

Novabackup Professional 14.5

StorageCraft's Shadow protect 5

Note, I am also getting ready to test Paragon Disk Manager 12 Suite.  I've used their software on Windows 7 just fine, but haven't tested on Windows 8 yet.

Temporary workaround:

Boot from SSR 2013 System Recovery Disc and take a complete "cold" image backup.  Then in Windows 8 select ONLY the c: partition for "hot" image backups.

John

Andy H.'s picture

John - can you send me an image of the Dell and SRP partitions? Send me a private message and I'll give you upload details.

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

JohnTech's picture

Andy H, the Windows 8 pc is at a remote location and I won't be there for a couple weeks so I can't create a cold image of those partitions.  Remember when I try to backup them under Windows 8, I get the VSS errors I have previously posted.  I plan to take cold images of all partitions when I'm there.  (Why doesn't Symantec just order a Dell XPS 8500?  You can get expedited delivery from Dell in a couple days.)

Additionally, however, a significant question is:  Why does SSR 2013 show only 4 partitions on the hard drive, whereas Windows Disk Manager shows 5 partitions?  See my screen prints which I previously posted that demonstrate this issue.  SSR 2013 obviously won't even attempt to backup a partition if it doesn't identify it.

John

Andy H.'s picture

Hi John - Thank you for doing that. We've also been working with Dell on this issue, and have crafted a preliminary technote. We're also working on getting hardware in-house. Until then, the cold images will be extremely helpful from customers. 

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH206346

SSR 2013 is designed to show hidden drives (such as the Windows System Reserved Partition). However, in this case, the engineers are looking at these partitions and how to handle them.

What partition is not being shown in SSR, but is being shown in Windows Disk Management?

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

JohnTech's picture

Andy,

Here are the screen prints, one from Disk Management, the other from SSR 2013.  Same pc.  I think the 500MB EFI System Partition is missing from SSR screen.

(Note I am using remote desktop to the pc, which is why I can't remotely create the cold image right now).

Also, both the PBR Image as well as the WINRETOOLS get the VSS errors when included in the backup.

Thanks for helping!

John

DIsk Management Capture.JPG SSR 2013 Backup Wizard Windows 8 pc.jpg
piker21's picture

full back works perfect off of the ISO boot. with newer dells remeber to change the bios to enable the boot from legacy not EUFI. (must change back when done). of course that does not solve the issue, it is time consuming, and can never run backups on a schedule. however, given that I am running a dell XPS and Windows 8, we can conclude that SSR 2013, does not need windows VSC. it is structured to use it, but does not necessarily need it. thus, Symantec labs may take that into consideration, and change the process, and provide us with an update. ASAP I hope. note that i had no errors on any of teh partitions.

JohnTech's picture

Thanks Piper21 for the report.

I have a further suggestion for Symantec:  Update (create) a better User Guide.  The current SSR 2013 User Guide is 309 pages long, yet it does not contain a single screen shot in all those pages.  It contains only 2 graphic diagrams (page 48 and 108).

The user (us) needs some sample scenarios as well, not just a text explanation of each option:

1. How to handle EUFI vs. Legacy BIOS.

2. How to handle restore of EFI Sytem Partition (or other hidden partitions).

3. How to handle backup/restore of OEM PC's (Dell, HP, Lenovo) that have secure boot or other locked partitions.  How to integrate for example, the Dell recovery partitions that you must use the Dell tool to backup, with Symantec backup/restore.

4. We need clear scenarios on how to get a COMPLETE hard drive backup of various PC's and then straightforward how to "restore it all" onto a new blank hard drive.

The customers reading these threads are most likely the more advanced ones, but I honestly can't see have an "average" pc user can use SSR 2013 to backup entire hard drive, then restore it to a new hard drive, after a physical failure.

Ghost 15 (and predessor versions) were fine when a hard drive consisted of just a C: partition, or a C: and D: NTFS partition.  But we're wayyyyy beyond that now.

I've experiened several war stories that I don't want to repeat here, of recovering after hard drive failures and then not being able to boot the result.  

If Symantec doesn't get ahead of these issues, then other vendors will (or have).

P.S. I submit the above comments in the honest hope that we will get some improved documentation and functuality that will help us help our customers to make SSR 2013 work.  Thanks for the soapbox.

 

piker21's picture

JohnTech,

I believe the lack of documentation can be directly related to the fact that the product was not thoroughly tested as it should have been. when you do not know how the product works, if it works, you cannot lay out a user manual. I went hard on the support guys, although its not their fault to begin with, I was rather ANGRY not just upset. these guys (and gals), are trying to seek a solution just like the rest of us. its 2 poeple that are responsible and should be fired:

the lab manager who claimed the SSR ready for the market. and the executive that decided to sell it, without even requesting a test protocol and result documentation.

I need to mention that many of teh procedures mentioned in the thread, may have worked on windows 7, but will NOT on windows 8. (unless you buy a stack of various products to get it done). thus these suggestions are not that valuable, given that GHOST 15 works perfectly on windows 7, and it sells for 20 bucks on amazon. why pay more for SSR 2013 if you have windows 7?

I hope we keep all efforts on windows 8, (may be dell), and SSR 2013 working together.

to your point Johntech, you hit on a very serious note. Imagine, if the backup worked. and for some reason you cannot boot from a receovery disk after a crash? wow. (you hear that symantec?? )

KenIsaacson's picture

Having started this ball rolling, as the OP, I'm gonna sit the rest of this out and watch for a solution. I put too much time in already!

Thanks to you all for picking up.

Chris Riley's picture

A quick update for everyone...

Our engineering team are now investigating this issue (http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH206346). At this time, a root cause is not known.

Once we have some updates, myself or other Symantec employees will update this thread with more details.

GSevison's picture

 

After removing WINRETOOLS (*:\)

The same error code comes up for ESP(*:)) and for PBR Image (*:\)

So the steps to not include WINRETOOLS is incomplete, and instructions to save it via Windows 8 Backup does not solve the issue in a complete manner.

I am of course worried since I am not a Super Tech (to say the least) that recovery will fail without either more complete instructions, or a Symantec reprogramming of SR2013.

Backups and image files without a definitive and complete instruction of how to recover the full disc image are largely, well worthless/unworkable/unlikely to succeed.

Respectfully,

Georgia

Andy H.'s picture

Georgia -

Can you please send me a private message and I can get a case opened on this with you. (click on my name, then click 'send a private message'). Our ultimate goal is to get an image of the problematic partition(s) in house ASAP. 

 

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

piker21's picture

the cause is intergration of code, between the ssr2013 engine and windows volume shadow copy, with all the involved elements. such as MS shadow copy, dcom, and few others. I dont think, symantec is exerting any efforts at all at this time, any longer. the product represents less than 0.5% of theri product offerings, and not worth the R&D to repair. their preference is to lose those clients forever, and move on. they refused to acknowlege the refund issue, as they do have a money back policy, but no go in that regard either. those of us with dell, few hp and acer machines have been ripped off and its that simple.

I tried novabackup. beautiful platform, fast, but does not even see partitions without drive letters. thus, as worthless. then went on with storage craft. WOW. (big letters).

incredible, flawless, (EXPENSIVE), but nontheless, puts symantec to absolute shame. they apparently, ATE the ms windows 8 code before launching the product, and it was tested on all of the top 10 main brands. I tried it:

fast

sees all

not a single error.

not worried about ss2013 anymore, but still working hard on getting my money back :)

(appology to all the symantec support guys and gals, your efforts are apprecited, but produced a big zilch, nothing personal here).

David F's picture

Of those experiencing this issue, has anyone been able to successfully backup JUST the EFI System Partition (ESP) and their C volume partitions TOGETHER while still in Windows and then see if they were able to restore to a 2nd EFI based system or a newer virtual environment? If so did you have to make any modifications ot the partitions like that specified here: http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH205081

Thanks

-Dave

KenIsaacson's picture

John,

Thanks for this. Do I understand correctly that once I've backed up the WINRETOOLS partition in the manner described, I never have to do that again, with the result being that all of the other partitions can be backed up automatically without the need to back up the WINRETOOLS partition repeatedly?

Any idea why the Tech Article says "one complete backup of these volumes [the ones that caused the problem] should suffice." One such backup should suffice? Hmmm. Any idea why only one such back up should not suffice?

Many thanks.

Andy H.'s picture

Hi Ken,

I had a customer look at the contents of the WinRETools partition. The files and folders were dated Feb 2013 (the date his computer was purchased), and had not changed 4 months later. (He ended up backing up these partitions to his C:\ drive. Then as SSR backed up in Windows, his C;\ drive, those were included with it.)

 

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question

sharomyzhnik's picture

ok guys ... the last message in this thread was 18 jun 13. does the public release of the neccessary fix was come? having the same trouble with VSS_E_INSUFFICIENT_STORAGE error on win 8.1 system with ssr 2013. how could i obtain it? i read all articles but there are only "contact support" links...

 

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?pag...

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?pag...

 

thank you...

ps. just now i backuping with no hiddent partitions job - but this is not the right way.

 

Andy H.'s picture

The fix was not for compatibility with Windows 8.1, but for the issue of imaging a particular partition on the system, such as the the hidden partition(s), etc. If you go back to Windows 8 and the issue still occurs, you can contact technical support for a hotfix that may resolve the issue. The reason it is not public yet is because the hotfix has not yet been built into a public service pack. 

Andy Horlacher

Please mark this thread as 'solved' if it answers your question