Deployment and Imaging Group

Haven't had that experience with SMP yet, although I did get something somewhat similar when we attempted to go to ServiceDesk. At the time, it wasn't IE8 compatible, or IE9 I don't remember which now.

My UI issues with SMP have mostly been the slowness, reports that don't scale to the size of the field, lack of ability to scroll a list of anything - it always refreshes instead of scrolling, inability to multiple select in some areas, etc., etc., etc.

We've been looking at System Center as well. Our main concern is Asset Management. Management likes to have reports that shows which user is assigned to which computer, and Altiris/Symantec Asset Management is about the only application that does that fairly well. Although I'm told there's a plug-in for System Center that does the same thing, so we may be making the move...

"I had the displeasure of working on one yesterday that seemed to use Silverlight, but the vendor (Salesperson) didn't have a clue, and when it (the app) opened a box inside the browser the OK or Submit button was not visible, and you couldn't scroll IE to find it. Lousy programming." 

gee, was that SMP 7.1?  It does this very thing to me quite often.  my laptop's screen is only 768 px tall.  when it happens, i have to hit the little X on the "pop-inside" window, hit f11 to go fullscreen, then try whatever i was doing again.  it's really just an annoyance, but a real popup wouldn't have given me that problem because i could've resized it.

to me, it seems like if you're going to write all this stuff that locks you into a specific browser (IE) plus some plugins that are dynamically changing every time there's an update for something (java, silverlight, flash, etc ad nauseum) then you might as well just write a dedicated 32bit application that DOESN'T depend on  other stuff that you have no control over.  if you're saying they have to run windows no matter what, then at least with a 32bit app, users (us) get a consistent, reliable experience.  

in fact, i just saw a demo of system center 2012 yesterday - it has a 32bit console that looks and functions a lot like SMP 7.1's silverlight section.  except a lot faster, even on the overtaxed VM they had it running on.  

If they do finally EOL DS 6.9, and don't offer a Win32/Win64 version, I'll recommend EOL our contract with Symantec.

If the vendor doesn't offer what you need, and someone else does, then there's no reason to stay.

Every vendor wants to rush into the webapps game, almost all of them fail, but most don't want to believe it.

IMHO, webapps just don't cut it. There are a few that excel at what they do, but the majority that I've had the displeasure to work with, excel only at losing me as a customer. Most that I've seen don't do error checking, don't have a clue as to what browser settings are required for their app, don't check screen size and make adjustments, Java - don't get me started, and the list goes on and on.

I had the displeasure of working on one yesterday that seemed to use Silverlight, but the vendor (Salesperson) didn't have a clue, and when it (the app) opened a box inside the browser the OK or Submit button was not visible, and you couldn't scroll IE to find it. Lousy programming.

Sorry, just couldn't pass up the opportunity to rant about webapps!

we're running the latest PCA.  for whatever reason, it never takes my password when i try to authenticate, but it takes the service account password just fine. it takes most other peoples' passwords too.  my passwords aren't that complex, and i even tried leaving out high ascii and spaces, to rule them out.  i'm in the right access groups/AD groups, but i think PCA just doesn't like me.  Carbon copy didn't like me either.  

one note for pca

It works fantastically after they rewrote the code back in April.  Before this yes PCA was a major headache.

our shop is exactly what you just described.  we also use 7.1 but not the DS part.  still on ds 6.9 for all the reasons you mentioned.  it's not perfect, but its console is MUCH faster, more robust, and has nifty addons available like ImageInvoker (search connect for it).  PXE in ds 6.9 is a lot more flexible because i can actually configure it however i want to do additional steps inside WinPE, other than JUST imaging.  my imaging scripts consist of a fair bit more than just laying down an image and injecting a generic sysprep answer file - i've customized the heck out of my answer file, and i also inject a bunch of other stuff for pre-installation and other config tweaks, all during winPE, so that it's there during windows' first boot (minisetup), so setupcomplete.cmd can actually do a bunch of stuff for me.  no chance of doing any of that in 7.1; at least, none that i could find.

the only caveat i can find is that DS remote doesn't work with win7 unless someone is already logged in, and even then, if an elevated dialog box comes up (something running as admin, or a UAC box), you lose remote control.  if nobody's logged in, you can't even remote in, and so you can't login to do what you need.  that's one thing that at least PCA can do right (but as you said - when it decides to work).  

IMHO, symantec took on too big of a project with the whole 7.x branch, and fell on its face with it.  7.1 isn't ready to displace 6.9, yet i hear they're going to EOL 6.9 (no idea when, but i keep hearing that).  that will leave a huge hole in their offerings, and i wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of customers jump ship.  altiris isn't the only game in town anymore.  microsoft's system center looks like it's maturing quite well, and even dell (who used to rebrand and resell altiris) now has their own mgmt offerings.  brand loyalty isn't what it used to be back in the day.  board rooms focus on $ and if the end-user can't tell a difference, they don't care what the backend product looks like or whose name is on it, as long as it gets the job done and doesn't break the budget.  

There are 4th, 5th, and 6th types of users, although some may classify them as just a 4th type. They follow the same lines as the first three, but prefer to remain on feature rich DS 6.9, mostly because it is a Win32 application and does so much more than the lame web-based DS 7.1, and partly because it works 99.99% of the time.

We have v7.1 installed, but don't use DS. It is just not up to the task of replacing DS 6.9. We can do so much more in 6.9, without the convoluted mess people put up with in 7.1.

DS 6.9 remote control works, and there are no known security vulnerabilities. pcAnywhere might work sometime,  depending on the day of the week, or if it just wants to work that time. Did I mention security vulnerabilities in pcAnywhere? Those that were discovered in 2006 were finally patched earlier this year. They only released the following advisory in Jan 2012, and finally patched the last one in March.

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/securityupdates/detail.jsp?fid=security_advisory&pvid=security_advisory&suid=20120124_00

Another pcAnywhere vulnerability. Discovered in March. Patch available in April.

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/securityupdates/detail.jsp?fid=security_advisory&pvid=security_advisory&year=2012&suid=20120301_00

Imaging just flat out works in DS 6.9. And, if you want to image with Linux or DOS you can - as long as you can find drivers for your hardware. Ghost or RDP - your choice. Whichever is quicker or better for your environment.

Software deployment - works. No need to create fancy workflows for tasks/jobs. Copying one task to another job just works. Copying a job, pasting it into another folder and making minor changes for whatever reason, just works without any duplicating of tasks/workflows, or any of the other myriad of issues I've read about here.

Filters for deployment - simple. Create a condition in a matter of seconds instead of having to create convoluted filters in DS 7.1.

Want to deploy an app to a few computers? Just select them in the console and drag them to the job - done.

Want to schedule the installation for 3am? Select the computers, drag to the job and schedule. Need to wake them up at that time? Done automatically, if the console is configured that way.

If anybody hasn't experienced DS 6.9, then you don't know what you are missing. I highly recommend everyone give it a try. You don't have to bow to the almighty web-based DS 7.1.

Disabled user account control and ran the install under the local admin account on the server but the installation still failed.

Thanks for your assistance on this. I'll keep reading the forums to see if it gets resolved

Hi Ken,

This is the problem related to "RunCreateDSShare 3: C:\Windows\Installer\MSIC056.tmp" which I have also seen on some other DS forum thread but without resolution. This seems to an uncommon problem where DS share is not getting created during DS solution installation and installation is getting terminated.

I am not in a potion to give the solution of the same but this could be issue related to Windows User Access Control which is not allowing to create a Windows share (Deployment) during installation.

As of now you are stuck for the successful installation so I would recommend running the installation in workgroup environment with local admin privileges and see if this goes successful.

Thanks.

Hi Vaibhav

You'll find attached the log file. This is an english installation.

Thanks for the advice, I'll enable this setting and reinstall to generate the log file.

It is an english installation

Hi Ken,

Thanks for sharing the log but this was not of much help.

I would request you to share the support package logs, which can be created from SIM > Settings.

Also let us know if this is an english installation.

Thanks

Sorry but I'm unable to locate the log file you specified.

The only logs available are here C:\Program Files\Altiris\Symantec Installation Manager\InstallHistory\PerfLogs

I have attached the latest log from this folder. If this is not the correct one then please post up the folder path to the correct one.

Thanks for your time

Please share altiris-deploymentsolutiontaskserverhandler_7_1_x64.msi_install.log from SIM Logs\Installlogs.

Thanks

Hi Vaibhav

Standard installation path and any web config that is required. I am using the SQL instance from another server though, not local.

Thanks

Thanks Ken.

Please let me know if your setup is with all default (Website/Port/Drive) or there is some diff.

Hello,

Firstly, thanks to Vaibhav for a well written article.

I would guess i fall into the first type of user where I'm evaluating the suite to see whether it suits our needs however I am having issues getting it installed.

I have met the requirements for the package although it has recommended a different CPU for better performance (this is a test box so not worried about that). The installation always fails when installing the TaskServer Handler x64 (7.1.2316) with a runtime error c:\windows\installer\msi9a55.tmp.

Tried running the MSI file directly but Windows reports this a non valid install package. Has anyone experienced this so far?

Thanks in advance.

Ken

Thanks Jim.

Please do provide me the feedback once your colleague is done with it. Also I do expect that your (or of DS 6.9 users) most of concerns will get resolved in upcoming DS solution release. :)

Thanks Jeremy. I do agree with you that many people (mostly DS 6.9 users) don't need the complexity of 7.x and we are working here to address this concern as best as possible.

Thanks David to test this which is very much needed by someone other than me :) but please do provide me your feedback.

nice guide, i've given this as a read through to a colleague who just started working with DS. though alot of it was already done i think it gave him a guide to why those things existed and what was done to get it working.

Unfortunately for me NS / DS 7 isnt the full package yet and i couldnt move away from DS6.9 even if i wanted to, but it has some nice features and im hoping if they listen to the community they should resolve and change some of the things that just dont work the way they are currently setup!

again nice work!

This is a worthy effort and should be applauded, however the fact that it exists suggests that 7.x so far has failed to work for a significant number of users, most likely those in catagory two who are still using 6.9 as 7.x does not fit with their simpler requirements.

7.1 is great if you buy in to the whole Symantec product line (CMS, Patching, AV etc) however if you just want to deploy images, apps and do some remote control it makes things more complicated and takes way longer to acheive simple tasks, indeed it seems they have removed remote control from DS.

Many people don't need the complexity of 7.x and would prefer a much simpler product that is a better fit with their requirements.

Thank you ShaneB. I will take care to incorporate the specific request as best as possible :)

This is a great walkthough of how to get some of the high points of DS from start to finish.  Having gone through learning DS in the last year I would have greatly benefited from a description and explanation of how PXE works, specifically in regards to having multiple task servers.  Maybe this would be a point to mention on a second doc. Cheers

Hmm, no problem Vaibhav :) I got my answer.

As of now, Windows CE 5.0 is NOT supported for ITMS SP2. Sadly  So we will be moving our PC infrastructure over to DS 7.1 SP2, and keeping the Thin Clients on the DS 6.9 installation.

Thank you for your appreciation :)

But I am also not aware about Windows CE 5.0 support in DS 7.x.

Realy usefull ....!

Excellent article mate!  .

I have a small question though. Does DS 7.1 support Windows CE 5.0?

I was unable to find any documentation on that with the ITMS SP2 compatibility matrix.

We have about 8500 Thin Clients running Windows CE 5.0 which worked brilliantly with DS 6.9 SP4. However, we are unable to get them moved over to DS 7.1.

I was hoping to find some info on how to configure the Thin Clients for DS 7.1. With DS 6.9, we had this awesome article that explained everything. But I have had no success in looking for articles that assist with agent configuration for DS 7.1. 

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again mate! Keep up the good work!

Appreciate the efforts. Good article with excellent information.   

Humm.. It’s a good one but I am more interested in next part this feedback will also work :)

Thanks Sunil for your feedback :)

While writting this article only first and second type of users were in my mind as mentioned above; so this is a basic but complete DS hands on information but I am also planning to create a doc with advance information there I will include the suggestion given by you :)

Thanks again,

Vaibhav

A functionality works but what are the background activity that makes them work info would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Sumish