Deployment and Imaging Group

I've created a poll about Deployment Server 7.1, located here:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/polls/ds71-it-working-you

I've tried to make it as objective as possible. If anyone has suggestions to make it more objective, please offer them quickly and I will make the changes as soon as I can, so we can get more accurate results.

My suspicion is that a lot  of people are having problems with this product, and few people are posting either their successes or their failures. Hopefully a poll will quantify those results. I just want to get a feel of whether my problems, which have been numerous, are exclusive to me, which I highly doubt, or are being experienced by everyone trying to use this product to the fullest.

(And to the fullest, I mean: Scripted OS Install of Windows 7 to creating a Hardware Independent Image of said Install, then deploying that HII to clients using only inventory data and no custom answer files. All of this should be within DS7.1's reach, yet I'm having incredible problems, and so are a number of other people. But how many? Only Symantec tech support knows, and we all know how that goes.) ;)

Please discuss any Yea or Nay answers in this forum post, since apparently you cannot expound within the confines of the poll. Thanks!

Interesting poll.  I voted no simply because 7.1 still does not support WIM images. Yes, I can script things out like I'm currently doing in 6.9 sp3 but then why am I paying? And yes, I could use the existing formats but we have standardized on WIM images - period. 

we found some pretty significant bugs and undocumented "features"... scared us away from it like the plague.  our logic is that if we're finding this kind of problem during testing/pilot, what else will we find once we go into production?  thanks, but i don't feel like being that scale of a beta tester!  and this was with the production 7.1 released in march, NOT the beta!

Instead of hijacking this thread, I've created a follow up thread and poll for anyone who answered NO in the poll on this thread:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/forums/follow-current-poll-if-71-working-you

One of the questions is a duplicate of a question in this poll but I'm trying to get an idea of what organizations are doing.

Those are the folks I'd really like to hear from! What are the shortcomings you've run into, and what steps have you had to take to work around them? How major were the issues that you came across? (How are you deploying, and what?) I know, I'm asking a lot out of busy professionals. Whatever scraps you give me, I appreciate.

My experience with the product is like this: Start a job, it fails. Troubleshoot the issue for a week or two. Fix the problem, start the job again. It goes further than before, but still fails. Troubleshoot the issue for a week or two, Fix the new problem, start the job again. It goes further than before, but still fails. Fix the new problem, start the job again...

At some point in the near future, I think I'll be ready for deployment. NOT quite there yet, but I'm hopeful that someday soon I can change my vote to a "Yes - working around the shortcomings". Until then, I'm going to keep trying! And thankfully, the DS6.9 server is still up and functioning.

Thanks to all for your responses!

We are moving forward with 7.1 using hardware indep image and custom sysprep file ( short file but a few things like copy profile parameter I wanted to set). We were using ds6.8 and upgraded to cms 7.1. This is my first attempt at HI imaging, and since ds 7.1 sp1 fixed some bugs I found deploy anywhere to work well, but we have limited number of Dell models to support so may be easier for me than others.

I began deployment of Windows 7 with DS7.1 this week. It has been a rough week - I'm running into a lot of problems in production that I simply never had in my test environment, and I had a TON of problems in my test environment. ;)  I'm getting converted, however. I'm just about ready to change my vote to "Yes - it's working for me despite it's flaws." I can even see the day when I change my vote to "Yes - it's the best thing since sliced bread!"

I'm interested to see if anyone else cares to change their vote since the original poll...

Thanks DustinW for starting this poll thread ;

This poll is definately useful , your feedback / sugessions are Absolutely necessary for the betterment of the product.

We also started deploying win7 this week, imaged about 150 new machines so far with minimal problems. 

After weeks of installing and reinstalling us finally got it working at about 80%.  I can capture both backup and SYSPREP images and deploy them.  The biggest issue now is getting it to join the computers back into the domain.  I have seen it work in the past but now I can’t seem to get it to work.  Still going through all the checks.  IMHO this software was not ready for release.  I have been working in the computer industry for 39 years (Software, Hardware and management).  This program has too many bugs and anomalies to have been released.  It is very touchy for lack of a better word.  We ran into issues attempting to install SolarWinds System Monitoring Software and MS Lync software on the same server as Altiris DS7.1SP1A.  We also found that DS is hard coded to use port 80.  That will not past IA security standards on most DOD and other government systems.  Which means after all the work I have put into it we may end up dumping it and choosing another product?  You have to have your DNS 100% correct or there will be issues in that you could target the wrong computer, also if you for some odd reason push the same backup image to multiple computers (which you shouldn’t for many reasons) then you have to ensure that you reset the GUID on all of them or that will cause you to target the wrong computer. 

Originally SP1A was not identified as such on the installation but after I commented on that it magically got corrected. 

I agree Wolfpack, the product wasn't ready for release when it was. I think it is getting there. It seems Symantec released this Microsoft-style, with the first release actually being a release candidate and not a final release. On the other hand, though, the Altiris suite is so massive and does so much, it might be near impossible to release a near-perfect product without putting it out into the wild first and letting more people get their hands on it than just those who are willing and have the time to test a beta.

I heard a rumor that MR1 was going to be released mid-August. I'm eagerly looking forward to that.

Ok

I cant explain it but I just ran through the entire process:

 

Capture Backup Image

Capture SYSPREPed Image

Deploy SYSPREPed Image to 5 Workstations at once

Deploy Backup Image to original computer

 

And it worked

IE it imaged the 5 computers, set their name and domain name correctly and added them back into the domain

No Autologon issue

Only thing is  I need to add an additional restart so the Network type is selected rather than having to do it manually.

 

The restored backup image still comes up with no trust established on the domain but I have a feeling that is a matter of Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2 security.  I have to log on locally and leave and rejoin the computer to the domain.

 

Granted this is only one time that it worked end to end.

 

The only change I made was putting in the deployanywhere.exe V4112

What does your master image consist of, Wolfpack? Mine is barebones and scripted, so there's really no need to create a backup image of it. If it's anywhere possible to script out the creation of your master image as well, you might be able to get rid of that whole Backup Image process which has been causing you so much grief. I'm glad you've finally gotten it to work, though. You and I have experienced many of the same problems. This product has been a bear to work with! More so than anything else I've ever worked with, EVER. (You listening, Symantec?)

The results of this informal poll as of September 7th, 2011 are 55% "No" and 45% "Yes".  The final release of this product was released almost exactly 5 months ago. It doesn't really look good for DS 7.1, does it?

I imagine the Symantec employees are scared to death of speaking ill of the product, and maybe they even have been instructed not to. I felt so vindicated a few months back when I was on a support call and I overheard my support tech saying to another tech "You know, sometimes I really hate this interface". Yeah, you and me both, bud!

Next month, after 6 months on the market, I'm going to publish a new poll to get more accurate results. My answer has changed for the better; I'm wondering if everyone else's has as well. Still, I love/hate this product.

 

I wrote this words to answering in another bog entry, but I think these simple facts are so significant that they can be a stand alone blog entry if some product manager or devellopper read this blog.

Just for fun, some DS7.1 integration way :

- You have a wonderful tool to create PXE Preboot (Bootwiz). This tool include an agent (Dagent for DS6.9) and a way to include OEM (Dell, HP,...) tools. When you want to change the Agent (PECTAgent for DS7.1), the Symantec way is to drop the original agent and add the new agent through the OEM function. It's ... dirty ???

-You have a tool to replace tokens in your Tasks scripts. You want to implement a replacement token tool for unattend and sysprep files. Extanding the usage of Tokens is not a good idea, it's better to creat a new token replacement process without any user control (changing the %TOKEN% to @TOKEN) and put this tool directly on a dll on the PECTAgent. It's ... stupid

-You deploy a new Agent (PECTAgent) without any Inventory ability. It's shure, no one need to now the computer product name when you deploy a computer. It's ... idiot ???

-You deploy a new OS with the wonderful SOI tool on DS7.1. The SMP and deployment agent installation is made through the SetupComplete.cmd method. OK. So you copy the entire sources from the task server ? NO, it's too simple. You prefer deploying the Bootstrap tool and download the sources directly from the SMP server (23Mb accross a WAN...). I prefer no to talk about the DSPluginIstall.exe ans his Registry Tweaks, it's just ... funny ???

-Last but not least : Bare metal Deployment. Deploying software directly after deploying an operating system is too simple. You have to create a server job; deploying a software is not possible on a computer without the Software Management Agent. The only thing that the Software management agent have to do is : Talking to the SMP server that the computer use a license. Create a tool to populate the license table at the begining of the job would be too easy for customers; It's ... bullshit

 

DS7.1sp1 just work. For me it's not a real product today, just some bricks putting by some devellopers without any management. But it works. You can deploy Operating Systems through a web console. But if this product still live in 2014, i hope that every point i've wrote will be replaced by real products.

Just for your knowledge : I've deployed more than 5 client on DS7.1SP1 (and more than Thousand clients on DS6.9 and NS6.x/7.x) and it's not over. I expect a lot of change for the SP2 (or 7.2....)

Please Symantec, add some quality....(The last one : DS7.1SP1a doesn't include Task Serve Handler -aka PXE Tools- for x86 servers, see  http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH167515 ...)

This thing has alpha status!

Might I suggest that you send comments to me, the PM, directly, as opposed to blogging on Connect? I look frequently at the forums but as you can understand, I'm not online 100% of the time on Connect.

First, the last release of DS, was August 15th, as a roll up of bugs (20 customer issues, 40+ total). Have you tried that release?

We continue to work hard on creating a DS 6.9 like experience, although leveraging the benefits of DS now being integrated on the platform. Sure, there are issues as that platform integration gets better, and more mature, but given that DS 6.9 technology has been around now for 12-15 years, and DS 7.x has been around for 3 or so years, I think it's coming along. I don't believe it's completely there, with all of the bells and whistles of DS 6.9, but it is a solid solution today, with a stable foundation on which to build.

I would encourage you to sign up and participate in our beta for the next release of DS 7. You have to pre-register by completing a survey (forum posts in DS, CMS, and ITMS, all have the link) and we'll be in touch with those selected later in November, with Beta expected to open up in early December and run until GA at the end of Q1, 2012.

I appreciate all constructive criticism of the product and you should feel free to send those to me directly at rick_gines@symantec.com.

Sincerely,

Rick Gines, DS PM

Your chance to provide product feedback is coming with the beta. You have to pre-register. See the forum posts on DS, CMS and ITMS to sign up. Those chosen for the beta will be notified around the end of November with the beta beginning in early December. You must sign up to be considered. This is one of the best ways to provide input on product design and direction. I would love long-time DS 6.9 users to participate and tell me what they think!

Sincerely,

Rick Gines, DS PM

Perhaps it would help if there were available a list of bug fixes Symantec is targeting in the Beta.  Currently the Beta signup post only shows new features targeted of which in my case I only really care about WinPE 3.x support.  Setting up and configuring a test environment for a Beta is a lot of work which I am totally willing to go through if the focus is on fixing bugs already brought up by myself and others, but not if it's mainly on adding more features when the ones currently there are still half-baked.